Jump to content


Photo

BenthicQuest questions


  • Please log in to reply
9 replies to this topic

#1 mattknepley

mattknepley
  • NANFA Member
  • Smack-dab between the Savannah and the Saluda.

Posted 18 February 2017 - 06:02 PM

So I've given myself a little challenge; to see how many benthic fishes I can see in their native habitats in a year and half on a working dad's schedule and budget. I started last July, and will end this upcoming New Year's Eve. Nets, traps, hook and line, snorkel, whatever; it's all fair game. Don't even have to capture them myself, just gotta see 'em. So far it's going pretty well, and I'm having fun. But today threw me a curve. Went to a stream I know well, Brightmans Creek in the Saluda Drainage of SC. Floods and utility work have occurred since last I was there. Some of the stream I didn't even recognize. But it had plenty of fish, especially darters. But the darters look different than they had. Before it was obvious Carolinas and Tessellateds. Today, I'm thinking I had a mix of Tessie, Carolina, and Swamps. Have a look at the pics and see what you think, please.

Attached File  DSCN1811.JPG   82.22KB   0 downloads

Attached File  DSCN1814.JPG   90.45KB   0 downloads

Attached File  DSCN1820.JPG   78.43KB   0 downloads

Those first two are the same fish. Carolinas usually look quite similar to this, but have more light-colored spots in the mottling than these guys do, and the first dorsal seems to have more of a Swampie shape and color to it. I think you can tell the breast is scaled, too, when you magnify the ventral pic a little.

This next one I would say tessie, no doubt, but look at the twin bars on the caudal fin. I don't think tessies, or any other SC darter I can recall, has those. Or has my memory gotten really bad? (Certainly possible.) Do you agree; funky-tailed Tessie?

Attached File  DSCN1822.JPG   82.04KB   0 downloads

Attached File  DSCN1825.JPG   77.42KB   0 downloads

How 'bout this un? It looks more Carolina to me and I think the breast is naked...

Attached File  DSCN1852.JPG   91.76KB   0 downloads

Attached File  DSCN1853.JPG   104.18KB   0 downloads
Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."

#2 gerald

gerald
  • Global Moderator
  • Wake Forest, North Carolina

Posted 19 February 2017 - 08:07 PM

Yes, Carolina and Tessie.  where's the Swamp?  Do swamps ever occur together with Carolinas?


Gerald Pottern
-----------------------
Hangin' on the Neuse
"Taxonomy is the diaper used to organize the mess of evolution into discrete packages" - M.Sandel


#3 mattknepley

mattknepley
  • NANFA Member
  • Smack-dab between the Savannah and the Saluda.

Posted 19 February 2017 - 09:39 PM

Thanks, Gerald. I don't think I've seen Swamps and Carolinas together. Maybe these folks are beefin' up for spawning; seems to me the first dorsal on Carolinas are usually a little shorter than those, and less colored. That, and the lighter parts of their patterning seems to usually be brighter. Was just overthinking things, I guess...

Is that twin barred pattern on the Tessie caudals a thing I'm just not remembering? I thought they had more series of thinner spots.
Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."

#4 Dustin

Dustin
  • Forum Staff

Posted 23 February 2017 - 11:35 AM

As a late comer to this and potentially an outlier, i think the first fish is in fact a swamp.  It is more slender, less mottled and generally not as stocky as the bottom fish which is an obvious Carolina.


Dustin Smith
At the convergence of the Broad, Saluda and Congaree
Lexington, SC


#5 gerald

gerald
  • Global Moderator
  • Wake Forest, North Carolina

Posted 24 February 2017 - 12:30 PM

Re the Tessie, I think those 2 bars on the tail might be a juvenile thing, with few bars breaking up into more bars, or speckles not arranged in bars, as the fin grows.   Re Swamp/Tessie, I agree the 1st fish looks slimmer, but still within the typical range of Carolinas i've seen, and the head shape looks like Carolina to me.  Swamps IME have a more blunt, rounded snout.  However, my experience with both spp is mainly in the eastern Piedmont and Co.Pl, and a few feeder-tank Swamps presumably from FL.  I haven't really looked at western Piedmont specimens other than Matt's and Tim's photos.  Here's a slim E. collis from the Cape Fear basin in Chatham Co NC:

Attached Files


Gerald Pottern
-----------------------
Hangin' on the Neuse
"Taxonomy is the diaper used to organize the mess of evolution into discrete packages" - M.Sandel


#6 mattknepley

mattknepley
  • NANFA Member
  • Smack-dab between the Savannah and the Saluda.

Posted 24 February 2017 - 08:40 PM

Thanks for the input, everyone. Here's some more to chew on. They came out of Kate Fowler Branch, Saluda Drainage, SC. It's a tiny headwater, home to scads of Creek Chubs, several salamanders, and oodles of darters. I have never seen darters with jet black outlines on the anal fin.

Attached File  DSCN1908.JPG   86.56KB   0 downloads

Attached File  DSCN1916.JPG   72.4KB   0 downloads

Attached File  DSCN1923.JPG   73.86KB   0 downloads

Attached File  DSCN1926.JPG   82.59KB   0 downloads

Attached File  DSCN1932.JPG   59.54KB   0 downloads

Attached File  DSCN1944.JPG   82.6KB   0 downloads

Attached Files


Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."

#7 mattknepley

mattknepley
  • NANFA Member
  • Smack-dab between the Savannah and the Saluda.

Posted 24 February 2017 - 08:44 PM

Attached File  DSCN1964.JPG   81.92KB   0 downloads

What do you think they are? Some of these pics are obviously the same fish. I easily caught a couple dozen of these guys. Everybody in spawning mode. I want to say Carolina Darter, but don't think I've ever seen them (or swamps) spawning to know what they look like. Not sure if it showed up in any pictures, but several had black smudges on the highest part of the first dorsal, but no real black edging on the fin.
Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."

#8 gerald

gerald
  • Global Moderator
  • Wake Forest, North Carolina

Posted 24 February 2017 - 10:44 PM

I think they're Carolinas. Swamps and Carolinas can both get the dark smudge near front of dorsal.  See the Swamp pic on pg.356 in Fritz's SC book, which also shows a dark edge on 1st dorsal.   I've never seen that dark edge on the other fins, but springtime does funny things to fish.   Just noticed another difference Fritz describes at top of pg. 352:  "when viewed from above, the head of the Carolina darter is broad and rounded while the swamp darter's is narrow and pointed."


Gerald Pottern
-----------------------
Hangin' on the Neuse
"Taxonomy is the diaper used to organize the mess of evolution into discrete packages" - M.Sandel


#9 mattknepley

mattknepley
  • NANFA Member
  • Smack-dab between the Savannah and the Saluda.

Posted 25 February 2017 - 06:44 AM

Thanks, Gerald. I tried getting pics of the dorsal side, but the lighting was screwy and nothing came out. I'm surprised I got any photos at all, really. A couple of those are certainly Carolinas, and I'm guessing the ones with black margins on the second dorsals and and anals are alpha-type specimens. Almost all these darters had that cloudy look in the eyes we've discussed, but more of a mahogany than a green. Especially noticeable from above. Reeeeaaallly wanted to take a few of these home, but left them to repopulate their stream. Next spring we will (hopefully) be settled in a new house and I will have something permanent dedicated into which I can move a few of them.

Props to Tim and his for shaming me into finally checking out this tiny stream. I pass it nearly daily, usually two or three times, and have just never gotten around to throwing a net in it. Last weekend, while waiting on me and Erin, Tim and the girls checked it out and prodded me into action...
Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."

#10 sbtgrfan

sbtgrfan
  • NANFA Member
  • Charleston, SC

Posted 25 February 2017 - 07:24 AM

I need to get out with yall. Not that I would be any help IDing them, but I don't get to see Carolina darters often. One day, Matt, one day...soon. 


Stephen Beaman
Freshwater Aquarist
South Carolina Aquarium
Charleston, SC




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users