BenthicQuest questions
#1
Posted 18 February 2017 - 06:02 PM
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Those first two are the same fish. Carolinas usually look quite similar to this, but have more light-colored spots in the mottling than these guys do, and the first dorsal seems to have more of a Swampie shape and color to it. I think you can tell the breast is scaled, too, when you magnify the ventral pic a little.
This next one I would say tessie, no doubt, but look at the twin bars on the caudal fin. I don't think tessies, or any other SC darter I can recall, has those. Or has my memory gotten really bad? (Certainly possible.) Do you agree; funky-tailed Tessie?
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How 'bout this un? It looks more Carolina to me and I think the breast is naked...
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"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."
#2
Posted 19 February 2017 - 08:07 PM
Yes, Carolina and Tessie. where's the Swamp? Do swamps ever occur together with Carolinas?
Gerald Pottern
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Hangin' on the Neuse
"Taxonomy is the diaper used to organize the mess of evolution into discrete packages" - M.Sandel
#3
Posted 19 February 2017 - 09:39 PM
Is that twin barred pattern on the Tessie caudals a thing I'm just not remembering? I thought they had more series of thinner spots.
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."
#4
Posted 23 February 2017 - 11:35 AM
As a late comer to this and potentially an outlier, i think the first fish is in fact a swamp. It is more slender, less mottled and generally not as stocky as the bottom fish which is an obvious Carolina.
Dustin Smith
At the convergence of the Broad, Saluda and Congaree
Lexington, SC
#5
Posted 24 February 2017 - 12:30 PM
Re the Tessie, I think those 2 bars on the tail might be a juvenile thing, with few bars breaking up into more bars, or speckles not arranged in bars, as the fin grows. Re Swamp/Tessie, I agree the 1st fish looks slimmer, but still within the typical range of Carolinas i've seen, and the head shape looks like Carolina to me. Swamps IME have a more blunt, rounded snout. However, my experience with both spp is mainly in the eastern Piedmont and Co.Pl, and a few feeder-tank Swamps presumably from FL. I haven't really looked at western Piedmont specimens other than Matt's and Tim's photos. Here's a slim E. collis from the Cape Fear basin in Chatham Co NC:
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Gerald Pottern
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Hangin' on the Neuse
"Taxonomy is the diaper used to organize the mess of evolution into discrete packages" - M.Sandel
#6
Posted 24 February 2017 - 08:40 PM
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"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."
#7
Posted 24 February 2017 - 08:44 PM
What do you think they are? Some of these pics are obviously the same fish. I easily caught a couple dozen of these guys. Everybody in spawning mode. I want to say Carolina Darter, but don't think I've ever seen them (or swamps) spawning to know what they look like. Not sure if it showed up in any pictures, but several had black smudges on the highest part of the first dorsal, but no real black edging on the fin.
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."
#8
Posted 24 February 2017 - 10:44 PM
I think they're Carolinas. Swamps and Carolinas can both get the dark smudge near front of dorsal. See the Swamp pic on pg.356 in Fritz's SC book, which also shows a dark edge on 1st dorsal. I've never seen that dark edge on the other fins, but springtime does funny things to fish. Just noticed another difference Fritz describes at top of pg. 352: "when viewed from above, the head of the Carolina darter is broad and rounded while the swamp darter's is narrow and pointed."
Gerald Pottern
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Hangin' on the Neuse
"Taxonomy is the diaper used to organize the mess of evolution into discrete packages" - M.Sandel
#9
Posted 25 February 2017 - 06:44 AM
Props to Tim and his for shaming me into finally checking out this tiny stream. I pass it nearly daily, usually two or three times, and have just never gotten around to throwing a net in it. Last weekend, while waiting on me and Erin, Tim and the girls checked it out and prodded me into action...
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."
#10
Posted 25 February 2017 - 07:24 AM
I need to get out with yall. Not that I would be any help IDing them, but I don't get to see Carolina darters often. One day, Matt, one day...soon.
Freshwater Aquarist
South Carolina Aquarium
Charleston, SC
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