16 replies to this topic

[Moontanman]

Yeah, I know there is a couple of tropicals in there, I am going to remove them eventually.

 

[littlen]

The little stinkpot at the bottom is awesome. Nice tank, Moon. What size?

[mattknepley]

Love that Fat Sleeper! It is a Fattie, right? Way more stripey than the ones I've seen in person. Would love to have a tank with them in it someday, but they supposedly get to be a handful and big, to boot. That so? Your tank is freshwater, right? Was the sleeper weaned to fresh, or was it taken from fresh water? Finally to mirror Nick's question, how big is that tank?

[Moontanman]

The little stinkpot at the bottom is awesome. Nice tank, Moon. What size?

 

There are three stinkpots in the tanks, the tank is a 75. 

 

Love that Fat Sleeper! It is a Fattie, right? Way more stripey than the ones I've seen in person. Would love to have a tank with them in it someday, but they supposedly get to be a handful and big, to boot. That so? Your tank is freshwater, right? Was the sleeper weaned to fresh, or was it taken from fresh water? Finally to mirror Nick's question, how big is that tank?

 

Yep it is a fat sleeper, very personable fish, he started feeding the second day I had him. He was caught in freshwater, what wasn't caught by the video is lots of gambusia, about a half dozen black males and some very nice large females with black speckles, several local crabs, soles, and a warmouth I nursed back to health after I found him floating after what must have been another fish trying to swallow him. There are three mud minnows and  four popeyed mullets. 

 

I plan to go after some redfin pickerels soon. 

[littlen]

You can hardly notice the Iridescent shark 

[don212]

had some sleepers, till my other fish began to disappear, are those turtles really stinkpots? i had one and it really stunk, now i have his slightly larger cousin loggerhead musk, very similar but way cleaner than common musk

[MtFallsTodd]

Nice tank, really like the turtle.

[gerald]

What are the minnows?  I'm thinking shiners of some sort, but they're so well-fed they're all shaped like chubs!  And what type of crab?

[Moontanman]

What are the minnows?  I'm thinking shiners of some sort, but they're so well-fed they're all shaped like chubs!  And what type of crab?

 

Fritz knows what minnows they are, some of them are rainbow shiners... I think. some of the small fish are popeyed mullet, the crabs are fiddler crabs and some sort of crab that the males have no large claw and their legs are a little longer. Another crab is native to here but I haven't been able to catch one yet. They look a lot like sally lightfoot crabs... The interface between salt and fresh is not well defined and many fish travel back and forth making for some interesting catches... 

[Chasmodes]

Nice tank Michael!  Very interesting mix indeed!  The sleeper is very cool!

[fritz]

Moon has redlip, greenhead and fieryblack shiners in that tank.

[Moontanman]

Moon has redlip, greenhead and fieryblack shiners in that tank.

 

 

What species of shrimp did that one turn out to be? 

[Moontanman]

I have three greenhead shiners left, I went out of town and a mass "beaching" of many of the fish occurred. The fieryblack shiners are mean and aggressive, they would actually bite me when I moved things around in the tank. They are beautiful fish but to have a nice school would probably take a 100 gallon or so tank. Maybe a 75 if there was nothing but them in the tank. Red lip shiners are great fish, beautiful, as are the greenheads. The greenheads keep trying to defend a territory and rubbing all over each other. One mail and three females left. They are starting to show their age a bit, looking ragged. I wish I could breed them but not enough tanks set up right now. I am still negotiating with the boss over more tanks and or ponds.  

[mattknepley]

Interesting observation on the Fieryblacks. I can't claim my experience with them is typical, but I can verify and contradict your experience in one breath.


To set the stage, a few months ago my family and I were on the verge of moving to a new house; one that even had space for a dedicated fish room! In anticipation, I dismantled my 55g and moved who was left to a stock pond outside. The deal fell through in the very final stages (yay, real estate!) and since we are still looking I have not put much effort into setting up new tanks in the house. I have a lone 10 that houses an assortment of darters, two Fieryblacks, and a couple madtoms. Originally, I had a single Greenfin Shiner in there, too, that I mistakenly collected when I got the Fieryblacks.

The Greenfin beat the tar out of the Fieryblacks (there were four at first, I think), but pretty much left everyone else alone. After he killed one Fieryblack and had another on the ropes I moved him out to the stock pond. From the looks of things on the couple days a week I feed them, he's still king. Since the Greenfin left, the Fieries have no other Cyprinella competition, and established domain over the tank. Their favorite targets, other than themselves, are the Brook Darters. This is the opposite of the Greenfin's behavior, he left the Brooks alone and fussed at the Carolina Darters if he couldn't get at a Fieryblack. Neither of them bother the single Fantail Darter in there much. I guess Greenfins don't like darters from their own drainages and Fieryblacks don't like ones from others...

The past week or so an interesting change is taking place. The two Fieryblacks spend most of their time hiding rather than cruising, even at supper time. The Carolina Darters are skittish like they never were, and the two Mottled Sculpin are acting weird. They don't come out for chow lately and last night one was literally sitting with its nose in a corner and wouldn't eat. This all started at about the time I experimented with LED lights on their tank. They were way too bright, fish obviously didn't like them, so I put their flourescent back on. The fish were still goofy, and getting more so all the time. My only other guess is that one of the madtoms is getting aggressive after dark. The Black River is out in full light at chow time every night, and he doesn't bother the other fishes at all unless it's just to plow them out of his way as he prowls the tank. It's taken two months, but the Brindled is starting to come out at evening chow, and he barrels through every body. I call him Buggly 'cuz he's kinda Big and UGLY. He doesn't seem aggressive, but maybe after lights out he gets that way. I don't think w.q. is an issue, as they get weekly water changes of at least 20%, usually 30%, and sometimes as much as 50%.

To tie this back to you now, Moon, my Fieryblacks are like yours as long as they are the only Cyprinella. (Except now that something has everybody but the madtoms going goofy.) But I wonder how much of their behavior is an artifact of being only two of them, in a small tank; as opposed to a handful being in a large tank like yours.

[gerald]

I had a Greenfin shiner who shared a 33-long with an adult male Missouri Longear sunfish (Otis, for those who might remember him at our 2007 NC conference) for 2-3 years.  They battled often and were quite well matched despite Otis's superior weaponry.  Meanie Greenie (as my daughter named him) had the clear advantage in maneuverability and endurance.  It was he who started the fights, and Otis would get tired/bored with it long before Meanie Greenie did.  He'd also charge and attack fingers, filter bubbles (when Otis wouldn't play), or any new object placed in the tank.  Like yours, he too was acquired as by-catch with a group of tiny fieryblacks, from Shelby NC.

[Moontanman]

Interesting observation on the Fieryblacks. I can't claim my experience with them is typical, but I can verify and contradict your experience in one breath.


To set the stage, a few months ago my family and I were on the verge of moving to a new house; one that even had space for a dedicated fish room! In anticipation, I dismantled my 55g and moved who was left to a stock pond outside. The deal fell through in the very final stages (yay, real estate!) and since we are still looking I have not put much effort into setting up new tanks in the house. I have a lone 10 that houses an assortment of darters, two Fieryblacks, and a couple madtoms. Originally, I had a single Greenfin Shiner in there, too, that I mistakenly collected when I got the Fieryblacks.

The Greenfin beat the tar out of the Fieryblacks (there were four at first, I think), but pretty much left everyone else alone. After he killed one Fieryblack and had another on the ropes I moved him out to the stock pond. From the looks of things on the couple days a week I feed them, he's still king. Since the Greenfin left, the Fieries have no other Cyprinella competition, and established domain over the tank. Their favorite targets, other than themselves, are the Brook Darters. This is the opposite of the Greenfin's behavior, he left the Brooks alone and fussed at the Carolina Darters if he couldn't get at a Fieryblack. Neither of them bother the single Fantail Darter in there much. I guess Greenfins don't like darters from their own drainages and Fieryblacks don't like ones from others...

The past week or so an interesting change is taking place. The two Fieryblacks spend most of their time hiding rather than cruising, even at supper time. The Carolina Darters are skittish like they never were, and the two Mottled Sculpin are acting weird. They don't come out for chow lately and last night one was literally sitting with its nose in a corner and wouldn't eat. This all started at about the time I experimented with LED lights on their tank. They were way too bright, fish obviously didn't like them, so I put their flourescent back on. The fish were still goofy, and getting more so all the time. My only other guess is that one of the madtoms is getting aggressive after dark. The Black River is out in full light at chow time every night, and he doesn't bother the other fishes at all unless it's just to plow them out of his way as he prowls the tank. It's taken two months, but the Brindled is starting to come out at evening chow, and he barrels through every body. I call him Buggly 'cuz he's kinda Big and UGLY. He doesn't seem aggressive, but maybe after lights out he gets that way. I don't think w.q. is an issue, as they get weekly water changes of at least 20%, usually 30%, and sometimes as much as 50%.

To tie this back to you now, Moon, my Fieryblacks are like yours as long as they are the only Cyprinella. (Except now that something has everybody but the madtoms going goofy.) But I wonder how much of their behavior is an artifact of being only two of them, in a small tank; as opposed to a handful being in a large tank like yours.

 

 

I think you may have a point, I've found in many fish that are aggressive become more or less aggressive depending on how many fish there are and how big the tank is. My experience has been that lots of fish tone down their aggression when there are several individuals compared to one or two. A bigger tanks helps but the number of fish matters a lot as well... More fish spreads the aggression out so each fish received less abuse... 

 

I caught a really pretty sunfish about 2.5 inches long in a slow swamp creek the other day. I got a pretty good look at it but it flipped out of my hand and escaped. It was very colorful,I'm thinking it was a pumpkin seed or a dollar sunfish. The area I caught it is has seen a huge change in fish species over the years going from wall to wall catfish, gambusia, and redfin pickerel to mostly gambusia, some sunfish, very few catfish and no pickerel. Sleeper gobies have all but vanished as well and another goby species that comes in from the ocean is seen no more. No flounders either, shrimp have all but vanished, and fiddler crabs have become far less numerous. 

 

I've seen a school of what i think might be sailfin mollies but i haven't been able to catch any of them to be sure. 

 

Grass shrimp have all but disappeared locally in many places and chain pickerel seem to be on the increase.  

 

strange days... I do wish we had sculpins, one of the small species would seem to be interesting to keep in a community tank. That is what I am currently setting up in my 75. 

 

Thinking of setting up a native marine tank as well, collecting in salt marsh creeks is lots of fun... 

[mattknepley]

Maybe it's kinda like the ol' approach to African cichlids and sometimes NA Lepomis- overstocking equals less aggression. (Like what you were saying.)

Stream dynamics are changing in my neck of the woods, too. Noticeable increases in siltation and beaver dams being the most noticeable to me. Of course, my frame of reference is limited in that I have only been in the area ~10 years.

For some reason sculpins are on the increase in the tiny little corner of SC where I have found them. (Either that, or my dipnetting skill is increasing. Naaah, that can't be it.) Which is good, because the two I mentioned in the above posts are both dead as of last night. Their corpses weren't beefy, but not emaciated either, nor particularly eaten. One was actually in the Brindled's favorite lair and didn't look touched. I'm curious to see if things calm down in there now; wonder if the sculpins were filling the tank with schreckstoff (or however you spell it) and "dead and dying stank".