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Elassoma okefenokee


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#1 Cricket

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 12:58 PM

Can anyone tell me if these two lovelies are female?
1
2

Edited by Cricket, 25 September 2017 - 01:00 PM.


#2 Cricket

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 01:03 PM

I'm also wondering if these guys will eat banana worms? Or are they too small? I have black, white and banana worms. Working on microworms and mosquito larvae.
I also have frozen mini and normal blood worms, baby and adult brine shrimp as well as daphnia. Is there a trick to introducing frozen foods?

#3 Cricket

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 01:08 PM

One more thing. I'd like to add some leaf litter to my tank. Would anyone be willing to send some leaves treated or not? I would be happy to pay for shipping.

#4 gerald

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 10:03 AM

Look at the dorsal and anal fins.  Females will be clear with dark speckles, and young males will turn dusky-gray (beginning at the outer margin) and have few if any speckles.  Also, shine a flashlight on them from the side.  Females will have blue only on the cheeks; if there's any blue bars on the body sides or blue margin on fins, it's probably a young male.  

 

Micro / banana worms, frozen foods:  use a Petri dish, jar lid, etc to try out new foods and see what they'll eat.  Micro / banana worms are often used for feeding Elassoma fry.  This is why fine sand or bare bottom is better than gravel for Elassoma and other slow picky feeders.   I can mail you some oak and magnolia leaves when they start dropping in the next few weeks.


Gerald Pottern
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Hangin' on the Neuse
"Taxonomy is the diaper used to organize the mess of evolution into discrete packages" - M.Sandel


#5 Cricket

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 03:51 PM

Look at the dorsal and anal fins.  Females will be clear with dark speckles, and young males will turn dusky-gray (beginning at the outer margin) and have few if any speckles.  Also, shine a flashlight on them from the side.  Females will have blue only on the cheeks; if there's any blue bars on the body sides or blue margin on fins, it's probably a young male.  
 
Micro / banana worms, frozen foods:  use a Petri dish, jar lid, etc to try out new foods and see what they'll eat.  Micro / banana worms are often used for feeding Elassoma fry.  This is why fine sand or bare bottom is better than gravel for Elassoma and other slow picky feeders.   I can mail you some oak and magnolia leaves when they start dropping in the next few weeks.

ok thanks. The fins are so hard to see but I'll work on it now that I know what to look for. How about behaviors? Aside from the dancing. Do ladies take a territory? Or wonder about?

#6 Cricket

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 04:33 PM

   I can mail you some oak and magnolia leaves when they start dropping in the next few weeks.


Yay!! Thank you!!

#7 gerald

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Posted 27 September 2017 - 07:36 AM

I've had certain females that were fairly territorial and nippy too, but not like the males get. 

They don't do much chasing; they glide slowly toward an intruder and then WHAM! a split-second strike and bite.

Never seen a female do the wiggle-waggle dance.


Gerald Pottern
-----------------------
Hangin' on the Neuse
"Taxonomy is the diaper used to organize the mess of evolution into discrete packages" - M.Sandel


#8 Cricket

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Posted 27 September 2017 - 09:52 AM

I've had certain females that were fairly territorial and nippy too, but not like the males get. 
They don't do much chasing; they glide slowly toward an intruder and then WHAM! a split-second strike and bite.
Never seen a female do the wiggle-waggle dance.

I've seen this once or twice :) would a male treat a female this way? In other words if I see a definite male do it to another fish can I assume the other fish is also male?

Charlie

I'm leaving in the decaying plant matter below him hoping for things like infusoria to grow. And possibly for fry to hide in.
Good or bad idea?

Would they eat scud hatchlings? Would scud be a suitable tank mate? I've never had them but a friend is sending me a culture.

Edited by Cricket, 27 September 2017 - 09:54 AM.


#9 gerald

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Posted 27 September 2017 - 09:04 PM

Not necessarily.  Males may also chase off females who aren't ready to breed, just as cichlids and Lepomis sunfishes do.  Scuds and decaying leaf litter are good.


Gerald Pottern
-----------------------
Hangin' on the Neuse
"Taxonomy is the diaper used to organize the mess of evolution into discrete packages" - M.Sandel


#10 Cricket

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 01:55 PM

On the right female? Left? No idea???

#11 Cricket

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 01:56 PM



#12 Cricket

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 01:58 PM

Actually the right is grey and spotted. Oh brother I'm such a novice

#13 Cricket

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 02:04 PM


Clearer?

#14 gerald

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 09:26 PM

Young ones are not easy to tell, but no question about that one with pink-orange ovaries showing through the side.

Like many fish, young males will "try" to look like females for as long as they can in the presence of a more dominant male, to avoid attack.


Gerald Pottern
-----------------------
Hangin' on the Neuse
"Taxonomy is the diaper used to organize the mess of evolution into discrete packages" - M.Sandel


#15 Cricket

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 11:00 PM

Young ones are not easy to tell, but no question about that one with pink-orange ovaries showing through the side.
Like many fish, young males will "try" to look like females for as long as they can in the presence of a more dominant male, to avoid attack.

well good to know I have at least one female :) had no idea about the peachy color. Good to know

#16 Cricket

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Posted 01 October 2017 - 09:48 AM

I'm fairly certain to have identified 4 male (2 half the size of the dominant male) and 2 pretty equally sized. 1 quite large female. And 2 unidentified. I have never seen all 7 at once since they dropped from the net.

What do y'all think of this.
https://youtu.be/x9G1vkR-JAI

#17 gerald

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Posted 01 October 2017 - 07:48 PM

I didn't watch the whole video, but Elassoma hatchlings are about 3-4 mm long (not "microscopic") and are definitely bigger than a newly-hatched brine shrimp.  She's correct they're not big enough to eat BS, and do need rotifers, protozoa, or other super-tiny invertebrates for about a week after the yolk is absorbed.  Other than that, the info in her video seemed pretty good.  Her fish are E. evergladei.


Gerald Pottern
-----------------------
Hangin' on the Neuse
"Taxonomy is the diaper used to organize the mess of evolution into discrete packages" - M.Sandel


#18 Cricket

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 11:23 AM

I didn't watch the whole video, but Elassoma hatchlings are about 3-4 mm long (not "microscopic") and are definitely bigger than a newly-hatched brine shrimp.  She's correct they're not big enough to eat BS, and do need rotifers, protozoa, or other super-tiny invertebrates for about a week after the yolk is absorbed.  Other than that, the info in her video seemed pretty good.  Her fish are E. evergladei.

thanks Gerald (my first husbands name 😳 haha) did you get to the part about using 1 gallon jars for breeding? She said she puts a pair in a jar filled with floating plants and leaves them for a couple weeks then removes them and leaves the fry there til they are big enough for a grow out tank. It looks like there is nothing in them for aeration at all except the plants. Thoughts on that?

#19 Cricket

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 11:49 AM

Young ones are not easy to tell, but no question about that one with pink-orange ovaries showing through the side.
Like many fish, young males will "try" to look like females for as long as they can in the presence of a more dominant male, to avoid attack.

What do you see here? The juve above
And this little one?

I promise not to ask you about every single one :) (although only 4 remain haha)

Edited by Cricket, 02 October 2017 - 12:13 PM.


#20 Cricket

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 11:51 AM

I don't know how to fix that



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