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Large Sunfish Lexington, SC


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#1 nviole

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  • Congaree/ Lower Saluda River Basins, Columbia, SC

Posted 19 November 2017 - 05:04 PM

I caught this sunfish in a retention pond in Lexington, SC (Lower Saluda River Basin). I have caught pumpkinseed, bluegill, redear sunfish, and warmouth in the same pond. Is this just a stud of a bluegill or a hybrid? I've never caught or seen a picture of a fish that resembles this. 

Hybrid_6_21_17.jpg



#2 taldridge0321

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  • Pigeon Watershed, North Carolina

Posted 20 November 2017 - 07:50 AM

That is a crazy looking fish haha. Don't have many pics to compare it to, but here is a Bluegill/Green Sunfish hybrid, think you can cross this one off at least.Green+Sunfish+_76_.JPG



#3 Dustin

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 09:02 AM

I think that's just a big bull bluegill.


Dustin Smith
At the convergence of the Broad, Saluda and Congaree
Lexington, SC


#4 sbtgrfan

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  • Charleston, SC

Posted 20 November 2017 - 04:57 PM

With a deformed head, but bluegill for sure
Stephen Beaman
Freshwater Aquarist
South Carolina Aquarium
Charleston, SC

#5 centrarchid

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 07:01 PM

Head deformed.  Mouth gape a bit larger.  Appears to have faint dorsal spot.  Black pelvic fins really give me pause.  One Lepomis sp. over your way has black pelvic fins.


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#6 nviole

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  • Congaree/ Lower Saluda River Basins, Columbia, SC

Posted 20 November 2017 - 07:21 PM

Yes. I was wondering if this could be a Warmouth hybrid for similar reasons, but I didn't see any pictures that looked comparable. I actually labeled this as a Bluegill x Warmouth hybrid in the NANFA gallery.

#7 az9

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 08:53 PM

Looks like a redear (shellcracker) X bluegill to me. 



#8 sbtgrfan

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  • Charleston, SC

Posted 09 December 2017 - 07:45 AM

Looks like a redear (shellcracker) X bluegill to me. 

 

Are you looking at the first picture or Tim's picture in the second post?


Stephen Beaman
Freshwater Aquarist
South Carolina Aquarium
Charleston, SC

#9 centrarchid

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 09:51 AM

Looks like a redear (shellcracker) X bluegill to me. 

 

Bluegill they have over there are not the same as ours and it throws off look of hybrids relative to what we see in midwest.


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#10 centrarchid

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 09:52 AM

I am going to come out of closet on this one.  Looks like a hybrid between Spotted Sunfish and the funky Bluegill you have over there.  Or it is a species yet to be described.


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#11 nviole

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  • Congaree/ Lower Saluda River Basins, Columbia, SC

Posted 09 December 2017 - 10:08 AM

In glad I'm not the only one that had trouble with this ID. I've never caught a spotted sunfish in this pond, but it's not outside the realm of possibility.

#12 az9

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 10:15 AM

 

Are you looking at the first picture or Tim's picture in the second post?

 

I'm looking at the first picture. I've see a fair amount of these hybrids as a fish taxidermist. I can see both redear and bluegill in that fish. 

 

That said even the best biologists have trouble breaking down the parent species of sunfish hybrids without using DNA. It's not easy. 



#13 centrarchid

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 10:32 AM

I make known hybrids with some regularity and have good handle on how they vary.  The same hybrids make good reference vouchers.  That fish does not fit well with any hybrids I have made, which includes Redear x Bluegill.  The fish being a creten does not help.

 

Look at those pelvic fins.  They appear to be approaching jet black.  Only two Lepomis I have worked with show that characteristic, Redear and Spotted (not Red Spotted) Sunfish.  Spotted / Redspotted from the integration zone to show it but far removed from location of interest.  The Redear hybrids I have made do not show the greenish cast.


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#14 nviole

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  • Congaree/ Lower Saluda River Basins, Columbia, SC

Posted 09 December 2017 - 10:39 AM

The other Lepomis with black pelvic fins that is common in my area, and abundant in this particular pond are Warmouth. Does this fish not fit a Warmouth-like pattern? Larger mouth, short black ear flap, dark green/Brown hue, etc.

#15 sbtgrfan

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  • Charleston, SC

Posted 09 December 2017 - 11:09 AM

I see no redear in that fish, only bluegill. I have caught plenty of (most likely) pure bluegill with black pelvic fins, from Lexington, SC. I'll try to find some pictures later. Thus the issue with sunfish/hybrids/species locale. 

 

Only thing resembling warmouth I see is the color. Hard to tell on the mouth without it open more. 


Stephen Beaman
Freshwater Aquarist
South Carolina Aquarium
Charleston, SC

#16 nviole

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  • Congaree/ Lower Saluda River Basins, Columbia, SC

Posted 09 December 2017 - 11:20 AM

I don't disagree. I think one of the most likely things is that this is just a large bull bluegill. However, it does look different than the Bluegill I catch here. If it is a hybrid, the most plausible cross in my opinion is with a Warmouth based on its characteristics and the sunfish population in this pond.

#17 az9

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 01:51 PM

I make known hybrids with some regularity and have good handle on how they vary.  The same hybrids make good reference vouchers.  That fish does not fit well with any hybrids I have made, which includes Redear x Bluegill.  The fish being a creten does not help.

 

Look at those pelvic fins.  They appear to be approaching jet black.  Only two Lepomis I have worked with show that characteristic, Redear and Spotted (not Red Spotted) Sunfish.  Spotted / Redspotted from the integration zone to show it but far removed from location of interest.  The Redear hybrids I have made do not show the greenish cast.

 

I regularly see male bluegill in my region that have black pelvic fins.  Just like this one:

 

rLS3T5o.jpg



#18 az9

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 02:04 PM

Redear with greenish cast:

 

ndOWPcK.jpg



#19 az9

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 02:11 PM

I see no redear in that fish, only bluegill. I have caught plenty of (most likely) pure bluegill with black pelvic fins, from Lexington, SC. I'll try to find some pictures later. Thus the issue with sunfish/hybrids/species locale. 

 

Only thing resembling warmouth I see is the color. Hard to tell on the mouth without it open more. 

 

It seems to have some lighter margin on the ear tab. That indicates there is some other species involved than just bluegill. 



#20 az9

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 02:15 PM

Please, please keep in mind I am not trying to stump on anyone's toes here especially since I'm sure most of you here have far more experience and education than I do (especially centrarchid).  I just have my opinion and you know what they say about opinions.  :-k

 

Hopefully we can keep this civil. I've seen people get butt hurt in these types of debates!   :-$   :biggrin:  






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