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Scientific Collecting Details Sought for AC


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#1 mattknepley

mattknepley
  • NANFA Member
  • Smack-dab between the Savannah and the Saluda.

Posted 16 February 2018 - 07:18 AM

We're thinking it might be a neat idea to feature highlights from the 2017 efforts of NANFAns who are scientific collecting permit holders. The idea at this point is to present them much as we do the annual State Rep reports. Whether the individual holder wishes to write their own summary, or entrust their data to me to condense and present is totally up to the contributors.

It'd be nice to highlight activities and present data that might otherwise go unnoticed by the general NANFA public. Personally, I also hope it would serve as an vehicle for increasing awareness of, and increasing the "validity" of, ways NANFAns can be involved in citizen science. I do assume most contributors would be professionals, but surely I am not the only layman who possesses such credentials.

This idea is in the brainstorming phase, but hopefully we'll have enough interest to do something with it. We have one professional set of data and my amateur set of data so far. PM me if interested.
Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."

#2 centrarchid

centrarchid
  • NANFA Member

Posted 16 February 2018 - 08:14 AM

I am up for that with Spotted Bass, Pirate Perch and Flier efforts.  Only last likely to fall in the true NANFA interest but might broaden who would look.


Find ways for people not already interested in natives to value them.

#3 Matt DeLaVega

Matt DeLaVega
  • Board of Directors
  • Ohio

Posted 16 February 2018 - 09:11 AM

I am up for that with Spotted Bass, Pirate Perch and Flier efforts.  Only last likely to fall in the true NANFA interest but might broaden who would look.

I believe all three species are of interest to our members.

 

This sounds like a great addition to AC.


The member formerly known as Skipjack


#4 olaf

olaf
  • NANFA Member

Posted 16 February 2018 - 10:11 AM

Cool idea. NANFA as an organization ought to be a great proponent of and resource for citizen science.

Am I right in thinking that not all states require--or even have--such permits? If so, we should also include a list of which do and what's allowed/prohibited without one. 


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#5 elting44

elting44
  • Regional Rep
  • Salina, KS

Posted 16 February 2018 - 11:00 AM

Pardon my ignorance, but what is AC?


Tyler Elting -  Intersection of the Saline, Smoky Hill and Solomon Rivers, Kansas
"Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men" -Matthew 4:19
Avatar photo credit Lance Merry

#6 fritz

fritz
  • Board of Directors

Posted 16 February 2018 - 11:56 AM

Our fabulous quarterly journal, American Currents.  If you are a member, you should be getting it



#7 fritz

fritz
  • Board of Directors

Posted 16 February 2018 - 12:00 PM

Olaf - As far as I know all states have scientific collecting permits and they are generally used by researchers or consultants on particular projects or studies.  Usually very focused.  In many states, you can catch fishes with a state fishing license but you might be restricted as to what you can catch.  For example, in North Carolina all sunfishes (including the little Enneacanthus) can only be caught with hook and line - no dip netting.



#8 elting44

elting44
  • Regional Rep
  • Salina, KS

Posted 16 February 2018 - 12:01 PM

Ahhh, yeah I am familiar and read the last 2 so far, didn't get the acronym. Thanks for clearing that up
Tyler Elting -  Intersection of the Saline, Smoky Hill and Solomon Rivers, Kansas
"Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men" -Matthew 4:19
Avatar photo credit Lance Merry

#9 mattknepley

mattknepley
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Posted 16 February 2018 - 03:55 PM

I am up for that with Spotted Bass, Pirate Perch and Flier efforts.  Only last likely to fall in the true NANFA interest but might broaden who would look.


I, too, think all three of these species would be of interest. I myself find Pirate Perch to be fascinating creatures.

Pm-ed you.
Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."

#10 mattknepley

mattknepley
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  • Smack-dab between the Savannah and the Saluda.

Posted 16 February 2018 - 04:03 PM

Am glad for the initial support! I feel as if we can count on having at least four contributors, that would make for at least a page, bare minimum. Hopefully we'll have more folks express interest and get a good representation across NA.

Olaf and Fritz, didn't mean to keep you out of the loop. It was just a two or three email brain drizzle between me and Kon that I have kinda run with.
Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."

#11 mattknepley

mattknepley
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  • Smack-dab between the Savannah and the Saluda.

Posted 16 February 2018 - 04:05 PM

Cool idea. NANFA as an organization ought to be a great proponent of and resource for citizen science.
Am I right in thinking that not all states require--or even have--such permits? If so, we should also include a list of which do and what's allowed/prohibited without one.

 
 

Olaf - As far as I know all states have scientific collecting permits and they are generally used by researchers or consultants on particular projects or studies.  Usually very focused.  In many states, you can catch fishes with a state fishing license but you might be restricted as to what you can catch.  For example, in North Carolina all sunfishes (including the little Enneacanthus) can only be caught with hook and line - no dip netting.


Good points, gentlemen. I know other states may not be as generous in handing out permits as SC is, but if one is articulate and focused enough I see no reason more people couldn't hold them.
Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."

#12 elting44

elting44
  • Regional Rep
  • Salina, KS

Posted 16 February 2018 - 04:46 PM

I applied for a federal NPS permit to collect on a national wildlife preserve in my area, but my application is currently pending approval from the park research coordinator.

 

Kansas defines baitfish as: Minnow or carp family (Cyprinidae), sucker family (Catostomidae), top minnows or killifish family (Cyprinodontidae), shad family (Clupeidae), sunfish family (Centrarchidae), excluding black basses and crappie, all of which can be collected via the following methods: seine not larger than 15 feet long and four feet deep, with mesh not larger than 1/4 inch; fish trap with mesh not larger than 1/4 inch and throat no larger than 1 inch in diameter (must be tagged with fisherman's name and address); fishing line; or a dip or cast net with mesh no larger than 1/2 inch.  


Tyler Elting -  Intersection of the Saline, Smoky Hill and Solomon Rivers, Kansas
"Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men" -Matthew 4:19
Avatar photo credit Lance Merry

#13 Michael Wolfe

Michael Wolfe
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  • North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 16 February 2018 - 08:54 PM

Matt, I would be willing to participate. I think it is important that we tell this story. Citizen science can be an important part of what NANFA can be, how we can serve and educate.
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

#14 mattknepley

mattknepley
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Posted 16 February 2018 - 08:59 PM

I applied once for permission to collect at Ninety Six National Historic Site here in my hometown. Did the IRIS stuff and whatever. Not sure if I never finished the application or whether I was never issued it. I imagine my pride would remember if I'd been shot down, so I'm guessing the fault was mine. PErhaps I should try again, as my focus would be different. Interesting the distinction KS makes among the sunfish family members. Bluegill and so on usually have a little more specific restrictions regarding how one may take them and how many, etc...
Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."

#15 mattknepley

mattknepley
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  • Smack-dab between the Savannah and the Saluda.

Posted 16 February 2018 - 09:01 PM

Matt, I would be willing to participate. I think it is important that we tell this story. Citizen science can be an important part of what NANFA can be, how we can serve and educate.

Excellent! Will touch base with ya soon. Still trying to figure out how many folks are interested and how to present it.
Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."

#16 elting44

elting44
  • Regional Rep
  • Salina, KS

Posted 16 February 2018 - 11:53 PM

I applied once for permission to collect at Ninety Six National Historic Site here in my hometown. Did the IRIS stuff and whatever. Not sure if I never finished the application or whether I was never issued it. I imagine my pride would remember if I'd been shot down, so I'm guessing the fault was mine. PErhaps I should try again, as my focus would be different. Interesting the distinction KS makes among the sunfish family members. Bluegill and so on usually have a little more specific restrictions regarding how one may take them and how many, etc...


Yeah, and oddly enough Bluegill and Green Sunfish have more lenient restrictions in regards to where the can be transported and used. Most WC baitfish can only be used in the watershed in which they were taken. Not the case with Bluegills and Greenies:

Wild-caught baitfish may be used as live bait only within the common drainage where caught and shall not be transported upstream across any dam or barrier that prohibits the normal passage of fish. Bluegill and green sunfish collected from non-designated aquatic nuisance waters may be possessed or used as live bait anywhere in the state. No person may possess any live fish upon departure from any designated aquatic nuisance species water

The regulation at the end prohibiting the taking of any live fish from a designated ANS bodies is a particular bummer. There are a few bodies that I'd like to try to catch some Longear and/or Orange Sunfish from, but can't. This restriction is understandable though, Zebra Mussels are awful little critters.
Tyler Elting -  Intersection of the Saline, Smoky Hill and Solomon Rivers, Kansas
"Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men" -Matthew 4:19
Avatar photo credit Lance Merry

#17 Birdbrain

Birdbrain
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  • Georgia - Dog River -> Chattahootchee

Posted 19 February 2018 - 10:36 PM

Way cool - if I had a scientific collecting permit and did it, I'd definitely be volunteering!

 

 

Matt, I would be willing to participate. I think it is important that we tell this story. Citizen science can be an important part of what NANFA can be, how we can serve and educate.

 

Selfishly, I'd like to see something along the lines of *how* to do citizen science well in our hobby/obsession.

 

What kinds of data would science find most useful?  What -- besides the obvious stuff like good photos, locale details, etc - would make our observations more valuable for science?



#18 mattknepley

mattknepley
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  • Smack-dab between the Savannah and the Saluda.

Posted 20 February 2018 - 05:32 AM

"What kinds of data would science find most useful? What -- besides the obvious stuff like good photos, locale details, etc - would make our observations more valuable for science?"

Good questions. I know that from my amateur point of view "that" I do something is valuable, but don't often consider "what best" I could do, or how I could "best do" what it is I am doing.
Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."




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