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Elassoma Gilberti localities & color morphs


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#1 zapins

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 09:36 PM

I am trying to locate information about the different color morphs of E. gilberti. It seems there is a fair degree of variation in color and patterning but I am unsure if there has been a map made with general distribution of fish.

 

I'd like to go visit them and take photos with my aquarium club some time in the next few months and info on where we can go would be helpful.

 

I am thinking somewhere around Tallahassee would be a good place to start. Any advice?



#2 Doug_Dame

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 10:03 PM

I've always thought that Wacissa Spring was the GoTo location for El. gilberti.

 

But I've never made much a systematic effort to look for them elsewhere, or to attempt to compare specimens from other locations. 


Doug Dame

Floridian now back in Florida
 


#3 gerald

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 10:14 AM

Here's the range map from Snelson's species description (labels and red line added by me).  Snelson Jr., F.F., T.J. Krabbenhoft and J.M. Quattro, 2009. Elassoma gilberti, a new species of pygmy sunfish (Elassomatidae) from Florida and Georgia. Bulletin Florida Museum Natural History 48(4): 120-144.

 

Not all of the fish being traded around under the "gilberti" name are in fact E. gilberti.  I've seen numerous hobbyist photos of E. evergladei and E. sp. cf. evergladei (the Alabama form) labelled as "gilberti" or "okefenokee". Some vendors are apparently getting them mixed up; juveniles are not easy to distinguish.  E. evergladei and E. zonatum also occur over most of the range of both gilberti and okefenokee.  E. gilberti and okefenokee ranges might overlap a bit in the Suwanee basin (near the red line). Without a microscope it would be difficult to distinguish gilberti vs okefenokee.

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Gerald Pottern
-----------------------
Hangin' on the Neuse
"Taxonomy is the diaper used to organize the mess of evolution into discrete packages" - M.Sandel


#4 zapins

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 06:43 PM

Thank you for the map. It overlaps and backs up other info I found.

I'm planning to go look around in the wakulla basin at the bird sanctuary. I think there are documented sightings of them there.

I've seen a huge variation in color morphs on the web. Some fish are a dazzling blue, others are black with dark blue, others almost gray with only small spots of green blue.

I have a feeling their colors are highly location specific.

I'll keep you all posted over the next few months with pics from some different sites if I manage to drive down to florida like I want.

#5 zapins

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Posted 24 February 2018 - 01:14 PM

I just found a facebook group called "Elassoma keepers and breeders fraternity" They have a lot of photos of elassoma varieties and frequently put the locality.



#6 gerald

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Posted 24 February 2018 - 03:42 PM

Those could all be the same fish on the same day, in different lighting and mood.  They can change from pale grey-brown to black in about a minute, and the amount of blue or green visible depends on lighting angle, since it's a refracted light color, not really a pigment.

 

I've seen a huge variation in color morphs on the web. Some fish are a dazzling blue, others are black with dark blue, others almost gray with only small spots of green blue.  I have a feeling their colors are highly location specific.


Gerald Pottern
-----------------------
Hangin' on the Neuse
"Taxonomy is the diaper used to organize the mess of evolution into discrete packages" - M.Sandel


#7 Matt DeLaVega

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Posted 25 February 2018 - 06:31 PM

I have only kept zonatum, but I tend to agree with Gerald. A lot of what you may be attributing to morphs, is likely lighting, attitude and substrate. One fish could be photographed 3 times in a day, and you may not be able to tell it was the same fish.


The member formerly known as Skipjack


#8 Bob1

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 12:24 AM

There is one person on aquabid selling a complete group of  E Gilberti. They are a dark black with grey spots on the fins.



#9 Ken Kilby

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 08:06 AM

There are a lot of posts on this forum by that lady about her Ellasoma. I would like to have them if I had a home ready for them.

#10 Matt DeLaVega

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Posted 22 July 2018 - 04:53 PM

There is one person on aquabid selling a complete group of  E Gilberti. They are a dark black with grey spots on the fins.

Yeah, as mentioned by Ken, these are or were for sale by Erica. She is author of the longest and probably the most in depth thread about Ellasoma anywhere. Ever. There is no doubt that her fish were captive bred for many generations, and well cared for.


The member formerly known as Skipjack





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