26 replies to this topic

[Michael Wolfe]

Putting out a call today for donations for the auction at our convention. I am emailing various businesses, but would also like to take the opportunity to contact all y'all that are here with us online. Books and artwork do very well at our auction, but so does aquarium and collecting equipment. If you have something that you would like to donate to support NANFA and the work we do through our grant programs, please contact me.

 

I already have a couple of pieces of artwork from some online contacts, and a few people have promised things when they completed their registration, but we can always use some more cool stuff.

[Michael Wolfe]

Lot's of views, but none of y'all are telling me what you are bringing?!?

[Akpinion]

I pulled some books today from my shelf. Our department moved buildings and a bunch of professors gave some books away so I have some books to bring! Including a couple of aquarium books and "Fishes of..." books. 

[Michael Wolfe]

whoo hoo I am always in the mood to buy some books!

[Josh Blaylock]

I'm going to bring some KY items.  Ale-8, and probably some Geodes. 

 

 

Michael, I had great success emailing some of the larger pet supply companies.  Lots of aquarium equipment and fish food was donated.

[mattknepley]

Would there be interest in Fish Certificates? Instead of luggin' some Etheostoma hopkinsi or other local-to-me species to the convention, I could print up some certificates for x number of said fishes to be shipped at a later time. There was some talk of it for the NH convention (Mike L suggested it, but I already had fish on hand and in bag...), but I didn't see it done when I finally made a convention last year.

[Josh Blaylock]

Would there be interest in Fish Certificates? Instead of luggin' some Etheostoma hopkinsi or other local-to-me species to the convention, I could print up some certificates for x number of said fishes to be shipped at a later time. There was some talk of it for the NH convention (Mike L suggested it, but I already had fish on hand and in bag...), but I didn't see it done when I finally made a convention last year.

Brian Zimmerman has done this in the past.

Sent from my ONEPLUS 5 using Tapatalk

[Matt DeLaVega]

 I thought Brian gave out gift certificates from his fish business. Not IOU's for fish that he could collect locally and ship. It is very similar, but at the same time different.

 

Not sure that there is any problem doing this at all. I think as long as everything is done legal, and a voucher is given to NANFA to auction off, that holds you accountable to the bidder for providing said service, then it is legit. I think it is a good idea.

 

Anyone have opinions on this?

[Doug_Dame]

Yep Brian has done this in the past, can't remember if it was KY or NC. (I haven't used it/them yet, but that's on me.)

 

It REALLY is a good idea. If you bring fish to the auction, obviously you have to pack them up ahead of time, and that's x-days before the actual auction. Depending on the timing, you may need to do water changes etc. The likely bidding audience is pared down to people who (a) would like that specific species of fish right now, (b) have a way to get them how (didn't fly), and © will be returning home soon.

 

The certificate concept just finesses many of those issues. 

* The bidder audience is larger, because many of the timing/logistics issues go away

 * likely higher price ...this is a not for profit fund-raiser

* the seller and buyer can later decide on a shipping date what works for both parties

* doesn't have to be a single named species. 

 

$0.02

[mattknepley]

Thanks for the input, guys. I guess I'll do a few of these as my contribution. Fishes I currently have easy access to that people have expressed interest in, that I haven't had loss problems with, include Yellowfin Shiner, Greenhead Shiner, Bluehead Chub (though they're on the offing at the convention), Christmas Darter, and Savannah Darter. Fish I have a reasonable, if not timely, ability to get that may be of interest are wild Sailfin Mollies and Fat Sleepers (if you have a LOT of room)...

I do ask for shipping advice. How is this usually done? On the bidder, on the fish certificate producer, halfsies?

[lilyea]

Would there be interest in Fish Certificates? Instead of luggin' some Etheostoma hopkinsi or other local-to-me species to the convention, I could print up some certificates for x number of said fishes to be shipped at a later time. There was some talk of it for the NH convention (Mike L suggested it, but I already had fish on hand and in bag...), but I didn't see it done when I finally made a convention last year.

 

 

I think this is a very good idea for the reasons Doug mentioned and many more.  One thing to consider - I suggest that we think about including resolution steps if a transaction isn't fulfilled at all or to a reasonable satisfaction (e.g, who makes the determination of reasonable?  what is the expected remediation?  is there process for escalation?  etc.).  This would help to clarify the expectations of the buyers and sellers as well as protect the role and reputation of the organization.  I realize that this requires a little bit more work on the front end, but would potentially limit future issues.  It seems that this may be a risk management issue for the BOD to determine.

[Doug_Dame]

Assuming that we don't open up the NANFA-CON auction to the worldwide audience of potential buyers using onsite agents connected real-time by phones, the Sellers and Buyers who would likely be involved in anything like this are (1) small in number, (2) mostly well-known within the community, and (3) as people who get value out of their NANFA associations, are not likely to want to jeopardize such relations by ripping somebody else off for a few $$. This isn't even just people who participate in the NANFA forums, this is people who are willing and able to spend time with like-minded fishheads at a convention, splashing around in local watersheds, telling fish stories, etc etc etc. 

 

My feel is that we don't need to over-regulate this. Any two parties who wanted to exchange fish for money as a purely commercial transaction can always use AquaBid etc or direct 1:1 discussions. The difference here is that the proceeds are donated to NANFA, essentially as unrestricted funds to help advance NANFA mission/s. A most worthy cause, IMO, but it's each individual member's choice as to what level of contributions, of time and/or gold-substitute, they're willing to make. 

 

(That's different from disagreeing with Bruce that this isn't a valid concern to be thinking about. The Board of any org needs to be always thinking about possible downsides of ideas that the more impetuous members might toss up. That's why NANFA uses a rigorous democratic process to chose mature, thoughtful people to be our leaders.) 

[mattknepley]

Thanks, Doug and Bruce. I had wondered about the "what if I can't deliver" aspect. I will probably concentrate on fishes I am confident I can procure in a timely manner when the bidder is ready for them.

[gerald]

So, would the BOD (and our GA-DNR hosts) prefer that live fish donations be brought to the auction, or shipped later using Fish Certificates?  If the BOD has no preference, what would BUYERS prefer?  (chime in here).  Attached is a sample Fish Auction Certificate we might use.  If bringing live fish, I would suggest they be kept in a bucket or cooler with a well-cycled sponge filter, and bagged just before the auction (or auctioned still in bucket), since we'll be there several days.  Sensitivity to confinement and transport should certainly be considered, especially for flowing-water species. 

Attached Files

•  FISH AUCTION CERTIFICATE.pdf   59.52KB   41 downloads

[swampfish]

As the perennial NANFA auctioneer, my feeling is that either method works well. Some bidders like to see what they are buying to know how large, old, and colorful the fish. Other bidders like the idea of a certificate so that purchased fish don't take up valuable fish cooler space or decline in transit as some attendees take family vacations on the way home. I think that bagged fish sell better than certificates, but the price is not tremendously different. Personally, I prefer bagged fish because I've purchased 2 or 3 certificates in the past and then never followed up on getting the fish. I don't remember to use the certificates, or when I do, it's too hot or too cold to order the fish.

 

As Gerald suggests, several that I know who have brought fish to put in the auction keep them loose in coolers indoors with aeration, and bag them just before the auction. 

 

I agree with Doug that rules and regulations on fish certificates are not necessary for the reasons he gives. It is a donation auction, from both the seller and buyer sides. There are always a number of used items that are sold "as is" with assumption that they function. However, I have no problem with the Board addressing this potential concern.

 

Phil Nixon

[Michael Wolfe]

So, would the BOD (and our GA-DNR hosts) prefer that live fish donations be brought to the auction, or shipped later using Fish Certificates?  If the BOD has no preference, what would BUYERS prefer?  (chime in here).  Attached is a sample Fish Auction Certificate we might use.  If bringing live fish, I would suggest they be kept in a bucket or cooler with a well-cycled sponge filter, and bagged just before the auction (or auctioned still in bucket), since we'll be there several days.  Sensitivity to confinement and transport should certainly be considered, especially for flowing-water species. 

I dont think there will be a problem with bringing live fish with you. But personally, I like the certificate idea. I got really nice crescent shiners at the NH convention that way, and they grew up nicely. There was no way I could have flown them home and not everyone drives to conventions.

[Irate Mormon]

I'm going to bring some KY items.  Ale-8, and probably some Geodes.

 

I've always wanted to try that Kentucky Jelly.

[Josh Blaylock]

 

I've always wanted to try that Kentucky Jelly.

 

Want me to bring you some Martin?

[sbtgrfan]

Would a pair of tickets to the SC Aquarium be of any interest? Charleston is a great vacation spot...

[Michael Wolfe]

Sounds great! I know I had a good time.