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Etheostoma simoterum
Started by
Guest_TomNear_*
, May 11 2007 03:00 PM
10 replies to this topic
#1
Guest_TomNear_*
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Posted 11 May 2007 - 03:00 PM
E. simoterum from the Lower T.
#2
Guest_blakemarkwell_*
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Posted 14 December 2008 - 08:03 PM
First off, great picture.
Second off, I apologize for bringing up such an old topic. However, I have been reading Powers and Mayden 2007: Systematics, Evolution, and Biogeography of the Etheostoma simoterum Species Complex, and I have a few questions.
It seems that the simoterum complex is getting quite confusing. However, according to this paper and the pictures the picture you posted Tom would be Etheostoma tennesseeense. I am just curious if that is Etheostoma tennesseense then where in Tennessee can Etheostoma simoterum be found?
Because the paper with its map distributions only shows Etheostoma simoterum in VA. I know they did not sample every watershed, creek, river, etc.... but can anyone shed some light on this? Ben, Dave, Todd, Tom, or anyone else!
I am not trying to understand the whole entirety of this paper, however, what does affect me is where certain species are found and others are not. I will be heading to Tennessee sometime this spring and would like to get a handle on the snubnoses distribution before I go so that I can expect what species from what watershed.
Thanks ahead of time,
Blake
Second off, I apologize for bringing up such an old topic. However, I have been reading Powers and Mayden 2007: Systematics, Evolution, and Biogeography of the Etheostoma simoterum Species Complex, and I have a few questions.
It seems that the simoterum complex is getting quite confusing. However, according to this paper and the pictures the picture you posted Tom would be Etheostoma tennesseeense. I am just curious if that is Etheostoma tennesseense then where in Tennessee can Etheostoma simoterum be found?
Because the paper with its map distributions only shows Etheostoma simoterum in VA. I know they did not sample every watershed, creek, river, etc.... but can anyone shed some light on this? Ben, Dave, Todd, Tom, or anyone else!
I am not trying to understand the whole entirety of this paper, however, what does affect me is where certain species are found and others are not. I will be heading to Tennessee sometime this spring and would like to get a handle on the snubnoses distribution before I go so that I can expect what species from what watershed.
Thanks ahead of time,
Blake
#3
Guest_farmertodd_*
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Posted 15 December 2008 - 04:20 PM
Blake,
Tom post the photo prior to the publication.
Are you sure you're looking at the right thing? Figure 2 shows all 6 species distributions and each species description is very detailed, even geographically with road crossings for each species holotype of the newly described.
Mmmmm..... Jimmie Roberts Road.
Todd
Tom post the photo prior to the publication.
Are you sure you're looking at the right thing? Figure 2 shows all 6 species distributions and each species description is very detailed, even geographically with road crossings for each species holotype of the newly described.
Mmmmm..... Jimmie Roberts Road.
Todd
#4
Guest_blakemarkwell_*
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Posted 15 December 2008 - 04:30 PM
Alrighty, I knew that they were very detailed with their descriptions, I was just curious on the distribution of simoterum and if they are found anywhere else then where they noted.
Thanks,
Blake
Thanks,
Blake
#5
Guest_farmertodd_*
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Posted 16 December 2008 - 12:21 AM
Yeah it doesn't really leave you with a Peterson type map, does it? But that's probably for the best as those maps are pretty deceptive. Natureserve ain't worth a dang on this question either.
Short answer is... If you're looking for simoterum, head up to the forks of the Holston or Watuga, it's a pretty continuous distribution in its habitats. That's where it's at, and you won't mistake them for tennessense when they're in color in the spring. There's TVA structures inbetwixt the two species on all forks at a minimum, so it should be pretty easy to keep track of (well, with the my one time experience with them up there with Ranger Bob before we got run off from the North Fork lol)
If you want to know where along the Holston below Kingsport you might get them, or where / if it intergrades... That's Dave Neely material, I'm afraid. So we'll have to see if he pokes in.
Hope this is a better answer. My last post probably didn't read very nice, sorry about that. I was doing too many things at once while dreaming about Jimmie Roberts Road
Todd
Short answer is... If you're looking for simoterum, head up to the forks of the Holston or Watuga, it's a pretty continuous distribution in its habitats. That's where it's at, and you won't mistake them for tennessense when they're in color in the spring. There's TVA structures inbetwixt the two species on all forks at a minimum, so it should be pretty easy to keep track of (well, with the my one time experience with them up there with Ranger Bob before we got run off from the North Fork lol)
If you want to know where along the Holston below Kingsport you might get them, or where / if it intergrades... That's Dave Neely material, I'm afraid. So we'll have to see if he pokes in.
Hope this is a better answer. My last post probably didn't read very nice, sorry about that. I was doing too many things at once while dreaming about Jimmie Roberts Road
Todd
#6
Guest_blakemarkwell_*
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Posted 16 December 2008 - 12:32 PM
Thank you Todd,
Your previous post read fine, I knows its sometimes hard to interject inflection and so forth in typing, therefore I never take anything too harshly over the net.
That is going to be quite a bit out of our way this spring, so its looks like that is one less snubnose I will get to see this spring.
Oh well, mabey next spring, so many fish to see and so little time to see them with the time frames schooling allows.
Blake
Your previous post read fine, I knows its sometimes hard to interject inflection and so forth in typing, therefore I never take anything too harshly over the net.
That is going to be quite a bit out of our way this spring, so its looks like that is one less snubnose I will get to see this spring.
Oh well, mabey next spring, so many fish to see and so little time to see them with the time frames schooling allows.
Blake
Edited by blakemarkwell, 16 December 2008 - 12:36 PM.
#7
Guest_farmertodd_*
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Posted 16 December 2008 - 01:58 PM
Yeah, you'll get a lot more bang for the buck focusing on the western slope of the Plateau and Highland Rim. If you had a burning need to see East TN stuff, a good portion of it can be found in the Emory watershed. From your direction that's not too far out of the way. Man, what you could see going Clarksville to Crossville, back and down to Fayetteville through McMinnville and Shelbyville, over to Lawrenceberg and back to civilization on the Natchez Trace. Phew! That is a LOOP, my friends. You'd definately be knee deep in Ulocentra thataway. That'd be all the simoterum complex beside simoterum, and including etnieri, duryi, flavum and others that I'm probably forgetting. Not to mention all the much more confusing Catonotus you'd get to see lol.
Todd
You'd definately be knee deep in Ulocentra thataway. That'd be all the simoterum complex beside simoterum, and including etnieri, duryi, flavum and others that I'm probably forgetting. Not to mention all the much more confusing Catonotus you'd get to see lol. Todd
#8
Guest_blakemarkwell_*
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Posted 16 December 2008 - 05:04 PM
Yeah, the confusing Catonotus are always fun as well.
I have began to map out some spots that Lance and I will be hitting this spring and so far we should see the following Ulocentra:
Etheostoma atripinne
Etheostoma baileyi
Etheostoma barrenense
Etheostoma duryi
Etheostoma etnieri
Etheostoma flavum
Etheostoma occidentale
Etheostoma orientale
Etheostoma planasaxatile
Etheostoma rafinesquei
Etheostoma tenneseense
I love Ulocentra (as you can probably tell ), and hopefully since we will be there in the middle of March we should see some nuptial males!
Blake
I have began to map out some spots that Lance and I will be hitting this spring and so far we should see the following Ulocentra:
Etheostoma atripinne
Etheostoma baileyi
Etheostoma barrenense
Etheostoma duryi
Etheostoma etnieri
Etheostoma flavum
Etheostoma occidentale
Etheostoma orientale
Etheostoma planasaxatile
Etheostoma rafinesquei
Etheostoma tenneseense
I love Ulocentra (as you can probably tell
), and hopefully since we will be there in the middle of March we should see some nuptial males!Blake
#9
Guest_farmertodd_*
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Posted 16 December 2008 - 05:11 PM
Yeah, if you hug the KY/TN border, you'll pick up the other species too. You're going to need sites tho to get all that in a week, no time for exploration When it gets closer to the time, give me a shout. I'll pass along what I can. Wish I could duck out and head along with you guys, but I think my trip this year is gonna have to be in April, and I'm thinkin' I'm just gonna go to two places and make for quality not quantity. Gonna need to figure out a way to get a dry suit for that tho lol
Todd
When it gets closer to the time, give me a shout. I'll pass along what I can. Wish I could duck out and head along with you guys, but I think my trip this year is gonna have to be in April, and I'm thinkin' I'm just gonna go to two places and make for quality not quantity. Gonna need to figure out a way to get a dry suit for that tho lol Todd
#10
Guest_dsmith73_*
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Posted 16 December 2008 - 05:15 PM
On our recent trip, we saw:
Etheostoma baileyi
Etheostoma barrenense
Etheostoma flavum
Etheostoma planasaxatile
Etheostoma rafinesquei
Etheostoma tenneseense
Some were just into KY. Let me know if you need spots.
Etheostoma baileyi
Etheostoma barrenense
Etheostoma flavum
Etheostoma planasaxatile
Etheostoma rafinesquei
Etheostoma tenneseense
Some were just into KY. Let me know if you need spots.
#11
Guest_fundulus_*
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Posted 16 December 2008 - 07:10 PM
If you come down along the southern tier of TN as Todd suggested let me know, I'll meet you at a spot or two like in Shelbyville, Fayetteville or somewhere in the (somewhat confusing) Little Buffalo zone. Or I'd be happy to show you the good spots in the upper Paint Rock river in Alabama that drain into the Tennessee from elevated areas of the Cumberland Plateau. It's hard to go wrong in the area.
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