5 replies to this topic

[JasonL]

Sampled the flooded shoreline of the Ohio River this weekend and found some fish I'm not 100% on ID.
Any thoughts are appreciated.

First two are juvenile gar. This location has abundant adult spotted and longnose gar. There are shortnose gar as well but not as common.

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Also found several of these. Given the color pattern and subopercle my thought is this is a juvenile River Carpsucker (Carpiodes carpio) as opposed to the Ictiobus genus.

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Final pic is of a darter. Found right off the main channel in flooded weeds. Channel darter (P. copelandi) and Slenderhead darter (P. phoxocephala) were considerations. It keys out closer to P. copelandi but the caudal spot is hard to ignore.

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Any thoughts appreciated.

[Matt DeLaVega]

I have only seen juvenile LNG, and your first photo seems consistent. I have never ran across any that are as plain as the second photo. Not sure that means anything.

 

 

I agree on on river carpsucker.

 

I don't know channel darters well at all. Your fish doesn't look like any phoxocephala that I have seen, we have them locally. It is pretty washed out. I would think you would have known a slenderhead in hand. I couldn't appreciate that slender head in photos or illustrations. When in hand it stands out.

[JasonL]

Thanks Matt, I was hoping you'd chime in.

Ran these pics by our regional ichthyologist.

Felt the gar might be spotted and shortnose. Was quick to note than small gar can be challenging and may not key out to the correct species when very small. Bottom line, adult gar aren't difficult to differentiate but small juveniles are tricky.

Agree with Carpiodes carpio.

Felt darter was a River Darter (Percina shumardi). This is an understudied species and they can be difficult to sample. Apparently there is a lot of regional variation. May be difficult to key out because of this.

Anyhow thanks!

[Matt DeLaVega]

River darters seem to have that crazy tear drop that runs under their chin, but pigment washes out. I like it better overall for a river darter than the other candidates. I have only seen them once in the middle fork Kentucky. Brian Z. identified it I believe, so I trust it was. He said he saw lots of them running the benthic trawl in the Ohio.

 

In the few times that I have been to "Garvana", none of us has found juvenile shortnose gar, despite it being the right time of year and us actively trying. Seined water willow, back waters, etc. We found plenty of longnose gar which were large enough to positively ID, but nary a YOY shortnose. Hundreds of adults though. Where are they? Smaller tribs?

 

Who is your ichthyologist contact? Matt Thomas?

[JasonL]

River darters seem to have that crazy tear drop that runs under their chin, but pigment washes out. I like it better overall for a river darter than the other candidates. I have only seen them once in the middle fork Kentucky. Brian Z. identified it I believe, so I trust it was. He said he saw lots of them running the benthic trawl in the Ohio.
 
In the few times that I have been to "Garvana", none of us has found juvenile shortnose gar, despite it being the right time of year and us actively trying. Seined water willow, back waters, etc. We found plenty of longnose gar which were large enough to positively ID, but nary a YOY shortnose. Hundreds of adults though. Where are they? Smaller tribs?
 
Who is your ichthyologist contact? Matt Thomas?

My initial hope when I caught him was P. shumardi but the lack of teardrop threw me off course. This is the only one I've found so far and they usually live in places that are hard to sample short of trawling.

Yeah I share info with Matt and other folks at KDFWR. They are very receptive and a good group to consult when needed.

[Matt DeLaVega]

Yeah I share info with Matt and other folks at KDFWR. They are very receptive and a good group to consult when needed.

They really are. Matt has been very supportive of fish enthusiasts, NANFA members and NANFA itself.