16 replies to this topic

[JasonL]

Went gar fishing today in a floodplain oxbow pond here in Western KY a couple miles or so from the Ohio River. Pond was stacked with mostly Spotted Gar (L. oculatus) but I also caught a couple of these.






KDFWR has been gradually reintroducing Alligator Gar (Atractosteus spatula) to certain areas of western KY over the past decade or so. Perhaps they'll make a comeback. Pretty stoked to find these today.

[Matt DeLaVega]

Oh Wow! Angled I suppose? This is exciting news.

[JasonL]

Jigging spoons with a treble hook was the secret sauce for catching these guys, and even then it was probably only around a 25% hook to catch ratio at best. I'm also happy to report that the gar are feeding heavily on silver carp YOY in this area, and the jigging spoon seems to "match the hatch" so to speak. All gar seemed really fat and healthy and populations seem to be on the upswing with the flooding we had this year. Hopefully this trend will continue.

[mattknepley]

Nice!

[Casper]

I never tire of seeing these prehistoric Gar.

I snorkeled North Chick this weekend and as i entered the water chest deep my friend standing on the bank watched as 2 Gar swam right up to me.  With the sun angle i could not see them but i know it is never a good idea to skinny dip in gar water.

[JasonL]

Update:

Well I submitted these pics to folks in the know and the consensus was that this was most likely a Shortnose gar (L. platostomus). Lateral scale counts can overlap but apparently Alligator gar this size still should have some prominent spots on their sides and the nose is a little shorter. Also, unbeknownst to me, L. platostomus (?and perhaps all gar) can have rudimentary second row of teeth on the upper jaw just not as prominent as A. spatula.

Sorry for the confusion. Thought I really had something here. Maybe next time.

[mattknepley]

Thanks for the clarification.  And no worries, it's still a dang cool fish!

[Matt DeLaVega]

Those gar are full of surprises. I was under the same impression about the double row of teeth. Funny thing is I have unhooked a couple dozen or more shortnose gar and didn't pay any attention to the lack of or presence of a double row.

 

In the couple of Garvana trips I attended, we never found juvenile shortnose. Juvenile longnose were found even though shortnose gar were much more abundant. I am real curious of where they reside.

 

Edit. So I had to refresh my memory and Peterson's is very clear that shortnose have one row and alligator have two. I wouldn't consider those rudimentary teeth either. I wonder what's going on here?

[Matt DeLaVega]

Found this. Doesn't appear to be a second row here.

[Matt DeLaVega]

Or here.

[Matt DeLaVega]

Ok. Alligator gar here. I see some difference. Comparatively, I suppose Jason's fish has a somewhat rudimentary second row. The placement seems  a little different as well. I really don't know. Peterson's should have an asterisk and annotation clarifying this IMO.   http://www.heartlandoutdoors.com/gretchen/story/alligator_gar_found_in_kaskaskia_river/ This link does show juvenile gator gar with spots. Also a head comparison of LNG, SNG, and AG.

[JasonL]

Yeah the teeth are a puzzle to me as well. No reference I could find mentions this in any other North American gar species besides AG, even at a rudimentary level. Think it might warrant a mention even if only a blurb. I'm going to pay closer attention to the teeth from here on out when I catch gar and see what's up.

Matt that's a good article you linked with some nice pics of smaller AG. Not all that far from where I fish either.

[smbass]

I have seen a decent number of each North American Gar species except Florida and Aligator, to me the one in question looked a little odd. I think they could have been hybrids. Looked like too long and narrow of a snout for shortnose, maybe they were long x short. I found one in Ohio last summer that I am fairly sure was this cross. The lack of any markings is a shortnose characteristic so I guess maybe they could have just been shortnose with a longer than normal snout. The teeth are odd but again I have never caught a aligator gar, only handles on to photograph and didnt examine the mouth. Last possibility I would through out would be longnose x alligator which I know can happed but its rare.

[Matt DeLaVega]

Thanks Brian. Seems like there is something going on here, and these are not just shortnose with a rudimentary extra row of teeth.

 

Jason, I am sure you are thinking of going back there. It would be really cool to get more photos and counts.

[JasonL]

I'm definitely going to hit this spot again in the near future. We'll see how it goes.

[JasonL]

Updated pics from today. Caught a bunch of these guys 14-16 inches in length. All with similar features. They seem to key out to L. platostomus to me.














Every fish had a tooth pattern like this.

[JasonL]

Update:

I went ahead and sent a copy of these pics to Solomon David, who has been a NANFA member and studies gar and other ancient fishes for a living. Many of you on here know him and he has a lot of info on the web too. This is what he said:

"I would ID this as Shortnose Gar, as I would with other specimens you caught in the area at the same time (not sure which photos are of same fish or additional specimens). The issue is with the ID diagnostics in nearly all literature concerning gars. The rows of teeth ID character is inaccurate, or needs further clarification. Gars from both genera, Lepisosteus and Atractosteus have multiple rows of teeth in the upper jaw, the difference is not Lepisosteus = one row of teeth in upper jaw, Atractosteus = two rows of teeth in the upper jaw; it's Lepisosteus = one prominent row of teeth in upper jaw, Atractosteus = two prominent rows of teeth in upper jaw. Having reviewed this in all gar species and many individuals, I can confidently say this is the diagnostic that holds up"

So there you have it.

He also went on to say that he has seen Shortnose/Alligator hybrids and doesn't think these fish pictured share those characteristics either.

Anyhow, thought I share this. Pretty interesting stuff.