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Another Plant ID Question


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#1 minorhero

minorhero
  • NANFA Guest
  • Maryland

Posted 16 December 2019 - 07:15 AM

Hello,

 

I was out for a hike yesterday and noticed a plant growing quite happily in a tiny creek. It stuck out pretty easily because it was one of the only thing that was actually still green. I was on a small tributary off of the patapsco river in central Maryland.

 

This is what it looked like:

 

9KUGA5h.jpg?1

 

SLK7iAI.jpg?1

 

And here is what a sample looked like when I got it home:

 

yBqAn6Z.jpg?1

 

Its extremely low growing which kind of removes it from most of the plants I have found thus far. Any ideas?

 

Also does anyone have a good resource for figuring out plant id other then posting here and asking folks? I hate to be a pest.



#2 gerald

gerald
  • Global Moderator
  • Wake Forest, North Carolina

Posted 16 December 2019 - 11:58 AM

Try this key:  http://idtools.org/id/appw/index.php.

from what i can see in your photos, the plant characteristics useful in the key are:

leaves opposite, ovate, rounded bases, leaf petiole present, plant creeping, rooting at nodes.

enter those features, and it will filter out everything that doesn't fit, leaving a list of possible genera.

would be great if you can find some trace of old flowers or fruit structures.

This APPW key is focused on aquatic plants in the pond & aquarium trade and is missing some wild plants that are not often cultivated.

Also, has there been heavy rain recently?  it could be a terrestrial plant growing in an ephemeral or intermittent steam that's only occasionally wet.


Gerald Pottern
-----------------------
Hangin' on the Neuse
"Taxonomy is the diaper used to organize the mess of evolution into discrete packages" - M.Sandel


#3 minorhero

minorhero
  • NANFA Guest
  • Maryland

Posted 17 December 2019 - 10:11 AM

Try this key:  http://idtools.org/id/appw/index.php.

from what i can see in your photos, the plant characteristics useful in the key are:

leaves opposite, ovate, rounded bases, leaf petiole present, plant creeping, rooting at nodes.

enter those features, and it will filter out everything that doesn't fit, leaving a list of possible genera.

would be great if you can find some trace of old flowers or fruit structures.

This APPW key is focused on aquatic plants in the pond & aquarium trade and is missing some wild plants that are not often cultivated.

Also, has there been heavy rain recently?  it could be a terrestrial plant growing in an ephemeral or intermittent steam that's only occasionally wet.

Thank you! I really appreciate the link. Unfortunately I was not able to make much headway using it. Like you said its got some holes in its database. Towards the end of my search with it I had Ludwigia listed as an option, but it wasn't a specific species of ludwigia, it was just "Ludwigia" also "Rotala" both of which I know have a lot of versions that look pretty different from each other.

 

I have had rain lately in Maryland but the area the plant was located stays pretty wet I believe since there were definitely small embankments off to the sides. I have the plants in my quarantine tank right now. If they live and start to grow I will make a more concerted effort to identify them. 



#4 gerald

gerald
  • Global Moderator
  • Wake Forest, North Carolina

Posted 17 December 2019 - 08:42 PM

Do the leaves have any fine serrations or coarse lobes, or are the edges smooth?  Can you get a photo of a few "good" typical leaves laid out flat, and also a closeup of where a leaf attaches to the stem?  It does look Ludwigia-ish in general growth form, but the vein pattern doesnt quite look like any of the creeping Ludwigias in NC that i'm familiar with.  Not sure what other creepy ones might be in MD.  Also some of the usually erect ones might go creepy in winter.  Cavan Allen on aquaticplant central forum might recognize it; he's at Smithsonian.


Gerald Pottern
-----------------------
Hangin' on the Neuse
"Taxonomy is the diaper used to organize the mess of evolution into discrete packages" - M.Sandel


#5 minorhero

minorhero
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  • Maryland

Posted 18 December 2019 - 09:53 AM

Do the leaves have any fine serrations or coarse lobes, or are the edges smooth?  Can you get a photo of a few "good" typical leaves laid out flat, and also a closeup of where a leaf attaches to the stem?  It does look Ludwigia-ish in general growth form, but the vein pattern doesnt quite look like any of the creeping Ludwigias in NC that i'm familiar with.  Not sure what other creepy ones might be in MD.  Also some of the usually erect ones might go creepy in winter.  Cavan Allen on aquaticplant central forum might recognize it; he's at Smithsonian.

 

Here are some additional pictures now in my quarantine tank:

 

i6CumrL.jpg

 

IBPIEkz.jpg

 

Good call on the serrations. I didn't notice them before but they are present (if tiny) using the tool most things get eliminated with this combination but "ludwigia" is still in the running. The leaves are pretty large for any ludwigia I have seen before which is why I discounted it and still question it. The larger leaves are 4 or 5 cm across.



#6 gerald

gerald
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  • Wake Forest, North Carolina

Posted 19 December 2019 - 11:02 AM

Looks a bit like Prunella vulgaris, a common weed which is not really aquatic.


Gerald Pottern
-----------------------
Hangin' on the Neuse
"Taxonomy is the diaper used to organize the mess of evolution into discrete packages" - M.Sandel


#7 minorhero

minorhero
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  • Maryland

Posted 03 February 2020 - 07:08 PM

Looks a bit like Prunella vulgaris, a common weed which is not really aquatic.

 

it's definitely aquatic. Or at least its living pretty great in my aquarium. I started it in my quarantine tank which at the time was low tech, no co2 just sand as substrate. In that environment it grew and frankly grew pretty well, about 1/4" per day in height. I have since redone my quarantine tank into a high tech tank with high light, pressurized co2, and dirt substrate capped with sand. Its now easily growing 1/2" per day and possibly more. I have already trimmed the tops and replanted 3 times. Here is a picture of one of the plants.

 

jWH0pqT.jpg

 

Its not really creeping anymore and is a very upright stem. My guess is that this is a species of ludwigia but I really have no idea. The leaves are considerably bigger then any ludwigia I have thus far seen. The bigger leaves are about 2 inches long.



#8 gerald

gerald
  • Global Moderator
  • Wake Forest, North Carolina

Posted 04 February 2020 - 12:28 PM

interesting ... the Dec photo shows long leaf petioles, just a little shorter than the main part (blade) of the leaf.  The Feb photo shows very short petioles.  Is the stem round, square, or in between? I'm not aware of any toothed-leaf Ludwigia sp.


Gerald Pottern
-----------------------
Hangin' on the Neuse
"Taxonomy is the diaper used to organize the mess of evolution into discrete packages" - M.Sandel


#9 minorhero

minorhero
  • NANFA Guest
  • Maryland

Posted 05 February 2020 - 09:45 AM

The stem is round and fairly smooth to the touch. 

 

Yes the plant has transformed a bit as it transitioned to submersed growth. I imagine this will make identification even more challenging. 

 

Its a fun plant to own because of the relatively bizarre leaf size and certainly easy to propagate. I will keep searching for an identity and will let folks here know if I find one.



#10 gerald

gerald
  • Global Moderator
  • Wake Forest, North Carolina

Posted 07 February 2020 - 03:22 PM

I ran it through Shaun Winterton's APPW key and got down to 3 genera:  Ludwigia, Lythrum, and Staurogyne -- none of which looks right.  It almost looks like basil except for the round stem.  Do you mind if i copy your pics and post on aquaticplantcentral forum?


Gerald Pottern
-----------------------
Hangin' on the Neuse
"Taxonomy is the diaper used to organize the mess of evolution into discrete packages" - M.Sandel


#11 Matt DeLaVega

Matt DeLaVega
  • Forum Staff
  • Ohio

Posted 07 February 2020 - 07:00 PM

Basil is exactly what I thought.


The member formerly known as Skipjack


#12 minorhero

minorhero
  • NANFA Guest
  • Maryland

Posted 08 February 2020 - 02:28 PM

I don't mind at all. If you need better ones let me know.

#13 gerald

gerald
  • Global Moderator
  • Wake Forest, North Carolina

Posted 09 February 2020 - 04:41 PM

Cavan Allen says it's a Veronica ("speedwell"), either V. americana or V. anagallis-aquatica   V. americana leaves have a petiole and V. anagallis-aquatica leaves are sessile (no petiole, per Alan Weakley's key), so it's probably Veronica americana.


Gerald Pottern
-----------------------
Hangin' on the Neuse
"Taxonomy is the diaper used to organize the mess of evolution into discrete packages" - M.Sandel


#14 UncleWillie

UncleWillie
  • NANFA Member

Posted 12 February 2020 - 10:38 AM

Minorhero, I'm glad you are having some success with it.  I must say I was a bit surprised.  When I first looked at your photos, I was thinking it was the same plant species I tried out a decade ago from NE Tennessee, which grew fine in the stream margins but promptly melted in my tank within days.  I was thinking you would have the same experience, but boy was I wrong.  


Willie P
Roswell, GA





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