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NW Native Garden Pond


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#1 nativenw

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Posted 23 June 2020 - 12:06 PM

Hi there!

I have a native garden with a 55 gallon pond and waterfall setup in western Washington. Id love to stock it with some smaller native species and was hoping you may have some advice :).

Im considering two options:

True native with Redside Shiners and Speckled Dace or Leopard Dace. I think this would work well but if any of you have experience please let me know.

Would you recommend a sucker such as the Salish or Largescale? I believe Salish stay relatively small but not sure if a pure freshwater environment would suit them.

Option 2 Pumpkinseed pond. So Pumpkinseeds arent native but are super widespread in Washington and I love their personalities and coloring. Would 2-3 fingerlings that grew up together work well or is it too little room? Would I be able to put some shiners with them or anything else thats peaceful or bad idea?

Would also have interest in purchasing any of these if you have any.

Ty!

#2 Joshaeus

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Posted 23 June 2020 - 12:45 PM

A 55 gallon water garden? I don't see highly territorial pumpkinseeds doing well in there unless you had only one (and even then it would likely require filtration...pumpkinseeds can hit 10 inches). Lepomis sunfishes (pumpkinseeds, longears, bluegill, etc) cannot be kept in groups smaller than 6 unless you want to imperil all the subdominant sunfishes, and that would require a considerably larger water garden even with filtration.

 

I am not very familiar with what freshwater fishes live on the west coast (most of my limited knowledge is of saltwater fishes like Garibaldi and catalina gobies), so I will let other members help you there.



#3 Matt DeLaVega

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Posted 23 June 2020 - 02:14 PM

What is the status of Olympic mudminnows? Washington's only freshwater endemic. I would have to go that route unless they are protected.


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#4 nativenw

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Posted 23 June 2020 - 02:31 PM

Joshaeus and Matt, thanks for replying!

Regarding Pumpkinseeds, I was concerned about the size and wasnt sure if they would be likely to grow to 10 inches or stay closer to 5-7 inches. Would keeping a male and female in this size pond alone be a bad idea?

Mike on Olympic Mudminnows, they would be my first choice by far but they are protected. They arent in trouble population wise but due to the small area they live in are considered threatened. There is an invasive report near me that is an interesting grey area for the morally ambiguous. The top of WA Fishing Regs states absolutely no fishing for them so no interest.

#5 Joshaeus

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Posted 25 June 2020 - 02:02 PM

The female pumpkinseed will die in such a setup...the 6+ sunfishes are needed to prevent the dominant male from pummeling everyone else (a bit like what has to be done with aggressive barb species or many african cichlids). If the olympic mudminnows are completely protected and thus illegal to keep, you may be able - depending on legality - to keep the non threatened eastern or western mudminnows in your water garden; however, I would not recommend doing so if they had any reasonable way to escape, as they would likely be able to survive in much of Washington and threaten your native mudminnows.



#6 Matt DeLaVega

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Posted 25 June 2020 - 06:14 PM

The female pumpkinseed will die in such a setup...the 6+ sunfishes are needed to prevent the dominant male from pummeling everyone else (a bit like what has to be done with aggressive barb species or many african cichlids). If the olympic mudminnows are completely protected and thus illegal to keep, you may be able - depending on legality - to keep the non threatened eastern or western mudminnows in your water garden; however, I would not recommend doing so if they had any reasonable way to escape, as they would likely be able to survive in much of Washington and threaten your native mudminnows.

Good thinking. We don't want to endanger Olympic mudminnows, and we need to be particularly careful when dealing with outdoor ponds. I like how you think.


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#7 nativenw

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Posted 26 June 2020 - 04:38 PM

Thank you for the education on Pumpkinseeds! Truly did not know. It seems the aquarist community with these fish keep them in similar size setups and must hope for the best? I will definitely take your advice and not keep them. Im keen on true natives anyway.

Do Warmouth have the same issues? They arent native but are easy enough to find in lakes.

To clarify, there arent any Mudminnow populations near my home vicinity wise. There are a couple of places theyre thought to be introduced to that arent a crazy drive though. Other than that youre talking very distinct populations on the Olympic Peninsula.

Theyre fascinating fish that can live in water other fish cant tolerate due to low oxygen. They also arent often found with non natives so theres some thought thats due to competitive predation advantages with bass/panfish (or just the oxygen levels they thrive in others cannot enter).

Its too bad there isnt some in the aquatic trade. One would imagine it would help conserve them if only artificially.

Also the pond is well filtered with a pump/bio filter setup. Its really a water feature thats more in ground aquarium than pond. It sits in a garden with only native plants. Theres no easy way for the fish to get to a creek thats not too far from me outside of birds or crazy floods.

Looks like I may go with native dace and shiners, but theyd look great.

Edited by nativenw, 26 June 2020 - 04:44 PM.


#8 Matt DeLaVega

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Posted 26 June 2020 - 05:34 PM

Since Olympic mudminnows are protected, their origin is probably a moot point. Typically the laws prohibit possession no matter where they came from. So the introduced populations are most likely as hands off as the native populations. It was a neat thought, but not meant to be. I think you will be very happy with some of your native cyprinids.


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