11 replies to this topic

[Lucania200]

Hello, I'm looking for recommendations for native fish that will do well in a 125 Gal. tub outside over the summer, but stay small enough to go into a 40 Gal. breeder for the winter, preferably something that will do well with Bluefin Killifish and Golden Topminnows (especially species found in the same area), and can be trained to frozen and/or pelleted food.

 

I am currently thinking about Swamp Darters, Florida Flagfish, and either one of the species of pygmy sunfish, or one of the Enneacanthus sunfish sp. Possibly a species of shiner that likes slower water (especially Pteronotropis sp. shiners) as well.

 

Any other ideas? 

[Robert Lamb]

Saw your other post saying you were from Kansas, have you looked into Fundulus kansae and sciadicus? They're normally a little difficult to get but if you live where you can catch them they are great to have. Since they are used to the cold you get in that area you should be able to leave them outdoors in winter too.

As far as the ideas you are already thinking about, they would all be great except maybe the pygmy sunfish. they aren't very long lived fish and usually people want to breed them. Bluefins and golden topminnows would likely eat any babies they can find, although perhaps since it's a 125 gallon tub enough would be able to get away. Elassoma zonatum would be the pygym I'd have to recommend due to their larger size as well as cold tolerance, if you get more northern stock they can stay out year round no problem. 
Flagfish are a favorite of mine and would be a great choice, and if you have hard water their cousins the sheepshead minnows are super fun too although they can be pretty aggressive. Very pretty when viewed from above. Goldens would probably be fine with the sheepsheads but I couldn't say on the bluefins.

[Lucania200]

Thank you for the reply.

 

F. kansae and F. sciadicus are actually both at the top of my wishlist (though it may prove tricky to get ahold of F. sciadicus, since I believe they are extirpated from KS, at least in the county they were known from), I may in the not-so-distant future do a tub of F. kansae and Cyprinella lutrensis (maybe some others too), but the soonest I can obtain those two sp. would be later this summer.

 

The biggest concern I had with the Pygmy Sunfish was compatibility with my Golden Topminnows, so I was very hesitant to even include them in the possibilities, and will probably not go ahead and get those.

 

My water is neutral (pH about 6.5), so between that and the aggressiveness, I'm going to stay away from Sheepshead Minnows.

 

I expect I'll have bluefin fry by the end of the summer (they go nuts in a tub). What do you think the odds are of me getting fry from anything else?

[Michael Wolfe]

I'm going to go with a supporting vote for Pteronotropis... shiners are the best and they stay smaller and are co-habiters with the other species you mention.

[Lucania200]

Which Pteronotropis sp. Would you recommend? I was thinking P. metallicus (mostly because it's range fit rather nicely with the rest of the list), but I'm not sure on the flow requirements for it. Obviously P. welaka would be cool, but very impractical. Are there any others that would work? Being from KS, I'd have to buy any Pteronotropis I want.

[swampfish]

My first Pteronotropis reproductive success was putting a few P. metallicus, metallic shiners, that were only about one and one-half inches long in a 100 gallon stock tank in mid-summer. I had forty fry by summer's end when I drained the tank. I've had similar luck with orange-tail shiners, apalachee shiners, sailfin shiners, and flagfin shiners all in non-aerated tanks from 100 to 350 gallons during summers. I've had orange-tail and metallic shiners reproduce in a 15 gallon tank in my basement during the winter. 

 

An additional advantage to Pteronotropis is that they typically ignore other fish, even fry. Golden topminnows seem to vary in their predatory and pugnacious behavior from killing each other and every other fish in the tank to being great community fish. I've had both kinds over the years. I assume that their behavior varies with collected locale, but I've not been able to determine that. 

 

My experience repeatedly with bluefin killifish in a stock tank is that once you put them in the tank you don't see them again until you empty the tank in the fall. I bought nine from Jonah's Aquarium last July, saw two or three for about a week until they settled in and I got more plant growth, then didn't see a single one until October when I drained the tank and found my original nine plus 80 fry.

 

Phil Nixon

Illinois

[Lucania200]

My first Pteronotropis reproductive success was putting a few P. metallicus, metallic shiners, that were only about one and one-half inches long in a 100 gallon stock tank in mid-summer. I had forty fry by summer's end when I drained the tank. I've had similar luck with orange-tail shiners, apalachee shiners, sailfin shiners, and flagfin shiners all in non-aerated tanks from 100 to 350 gallons during summers. I've had orange-tail and metallic shiners reproduce in a 15 gallon tank in my basement during the winter. 

 

An additional advantage to Pteronotropis is that they typically ignore other fish, even fry. Golden topminnows seem to vary in their predatory and pugnacious behavior from killing each other and every other fish in the tank to being great community fish. I've had both kinds over the years. I assume that their behavior varies with collected locale, but I've not been able to determine that. 

 

My experience repeatedly with bluefin killifish in a stock tank is that once you put them in the tank you don't see them again until you empty the tank in the fall. I bought nine from Jonah's Aquarium last July, saw two or three for about a week until they settled in and I got more plant growth, then didn't see a single one until October when I drained the tank and found my original nine plus 80 fry.

 

Phil Nixon

Illinois

 

Any suggestions as to where I can acquire some Pteronotropis? It looks like Jonah's Aquarium only has P. stonei (and only by special order). 

 

Most of my Golden Topminnows seem to be the relatively non-aggressive kind (with the exception of my largest male who won't be going in that tub with the others)

 

​My experience with Bluefin Killifish has been about the same (my brother accidently got a pair of them in a 300 Gal stock tank, and pulled easily 100 out at the end of the summer)

[swampfish]

Sachs Systems Aquaculture has flagfin shiners. They are a schooling fish so their set of 8 would be ideal. That is where I got the apalachee shiners. They were sent instead of the metallic shiners that I ordered.

 

Pteronotropis stonei is a backwater and swamp fish, so it should do well also in a stock tank.

 

Phil Nixon

[Lucania200]

How about 13 Bluefin Killifish (I can put less in, but that's how many I currently have), 2-4 Golden Topminnows, 8 Swamp Darters, 4 Bluespotted (or Banded) Sunfish, 4 Florida Flagfish, and 8 Flagfin Shiners. Does anybody see any potential compatibility issues? Any other suggestions? 

[UncleWillie]

Sounds like a solid community to me -  I like it.  Those fish wish all do great outdoors over the summer.  I'm not sure how much reproduction you will get with so many different species that will gobble up fry, but time will tell!

[swampfish]

Those fish should be compatible. I agree with Uncle Willie that 35-40 fish in 6 species in 100 gallons will preclude most fry survival. My normal stocking rate to encourage fry survival is 6-8 fish of only one species per 350 gallon stock tank.

 

Include some structure in the tank in the way of plants, driftwood, and/or rocks so that there are places where fish can escape each other. I typically include a potted water lily and some Najas or hornwort to each tank to provide hiding places for fry and individual fish that need quiet time. Adult fish commonly use the water lily and pot as a sanctuary until they feel safe enough to swim out in the open.

 

Phil Nixon

 

 

Phil Nixon

[Lucania200]

lot's of structure was part of the plan. For plants, I currently have: 1 Cattail (resting on the surface of the substrate so the roots form dense cover), 7-8 Potamogeton nodosus, Hornwort, Cabomba, Ludwigia palustris, Chara, Water Hyacinth, Duckweed, and Java Moss. I plan to add Azolla caroliniana soon, and can also aquire Anacharis fairly easily. I also plan on adding 1 or 2 pieces of driftwood.