Ok, I understand that this could belong in a few other forums, the state law one and possibly the sunfish forum. I have noticed that many people are looking for warmouth, I have a surplus and would like to trade, but am not sure if it is legal to do so. It appears that warmouth is not a sportfish here, but I know that I cannot sell it. Just want everything to be on the up and up.
Thanks for your time,
Rick
Is it legal for me to trade or offer virginia fish?
Started by
Guest_fishtanker_*
, Jun 16 2007 07:49 PM
17 replies to this topic
#2
Guest_drewish_*
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Posted 16 June 2007 - 09:20 PM
Warmouth are considered game fish in VA. Unless you have a permit, you can not sell them. If you catch them legally (hook-n-line), I understand you can send them to others.
#3
Guest_fishtanker_*
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Posted 16 June 2007 - 09:41 PM
I was hoping you could chime in on this one. Thanks for the info. How about trading?
#4
Guest_fishlvr_*
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Posted 16 June 2007 - 09:46 PM
Trading, as far as I know, is legal. IMO trading is better than selling, because you can get fish you want faster, instead of getting money, then going to someone else to buy the fish you want.
#5
Guest_drewish_*
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Posted 16 June 2007 - 09:54 PM
If you offer fish up without any strings attached, it isn't "trading" by definition. By law, trading is not allowed.
#6
Guest_fishtanker_*
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Posted 16 June 2007 - 10:13 PM
Thanks Drewish, no trading for me then.
#7
Guest_fishlvr_*
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Posted 16 June 2007 - 10:42 PM
By law, trading is not allowed.
I stand corrected.
Fishtanker- Even though fish trading is illegal, people can still send you fish as "thanks" for the fish you sent them. For instance, if you sent me a warmouth, I could send you some yellowfin shiners as thanks for the warmouth. That, my friend, is legal.
#8
Guest_farmertodd_*
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Posted 16 June 2007 - 11:05 PM
I wouldn't do it with any sportfish, period. And moreso, I definately wouldn't do it across any state line. You just opened up a potential Lacey Act case, and now you're dealing with the Feds.
Todd
Todd
#9
Guest_nativeplanter_*
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Posted 17 June 2007 - 08:55 AM
You can certainly send people fish in return for payment for postage only. You can thus get rid of your surplus and make some friends who might return the favor at some other time.
Farmertodd - I thought the Lacy Act only applied to fish posessed illegally, no?
Farmertodd - I thought the Lacy Act only applied to fish posessed illegally, no?
#10
Guest_farmertodd_*
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Posted 17 June 2007 - 10:05 AM
It's the same thing we run into with mussel valves. How are you going to prove that it was "fresh dead" or you made it fresh dead? The states have taken it upon themselves to answer that by saying "no possession, period".
There may be a wound from the hook on this fish in question, but how can you prove that you didn't just do that yourself, when you've got seines galore at your house? Notice, I said "potential".
Now I don't think that anyone is out to get someone... That's just paranoid.
However, we're talking about putting a fish into a box, paying a carrier (who might be the Fed Govt if you're really not thinking) to ship it, LIE that there are no animals (or even liquids) in it, and then hand it off to their care?
Most every person that's ever walked by any exhibit or tank that I've had with a warmouth has said verbally "What is that kind of bass?" What are people going to think if they open your box? I bet the manager gets called!
I would not put a sport fish in the mail, and would definately not send a sport fish out of state. It's not worth it. The fullest extent of the law is ugly at that point. If you're going to trade fish, trade non-game BAIT.
Todd
There may be a wound from the hook on this fish in question, but how can you prove that you didn't just do that yourself, when you've got seines galore at your house? Notice, I said "potential".
Now I don't think that anyone is out to get someone... That's just paranoid.
However, we're talking about putting a fish into a box, paying a carrier (who might be the Fed Govt if you're really not thinking) to ship it, LIE that there are no animals (or even liquids) in it, and then hand it off to their care?
Most every person that's ever walked by any exhibit or tank that I've had with a warmouth has said verbally "What is that kind of bass?" What are people going to think if they open your box? I bet the manager gets called!
I would not put a sport fish in the mail, and would definately not send a sport fish out of state. It's not worth it. The fullest extent of the law is ugly at that point. If you're going to trade fish, trade non-game BAIT.
Todd
#11
Guest_edbihary_*
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Posted 17 June 2007 - 12:51 PM
There is no reason not to ship fish by USPS, and there is no reason to lie. USPS Postal Regulations (Publication 52), Section 526.6, explicitly allows the shipment of fish, and specifies how they must be packed. I always pack them in accordance, and write on the box "Packed in accordance with USPS Regulations Section 526.6." No lying, no hiding, no deception. I was asked once by the clerk at the post office if there was liquid in the box, and I told him there were fish in the box and pointed at that. I told him I read the regulations, and packed the fish accordingly. "Oh, okay." No problem.However, we're talking about putting a fish into a box, paying a carrier (who might be the Fed Govt if you're really not thinking) to ship it, LIE that there are no animals (or even liquids) in it, and then hand it off to their care?
USPS Regulations Section 571.c prohibits the shipment of illegally taken fish and wildlife, specifically referring to the Lacy Act. However, if the fish were taken legally in the jurisdiction where they were taken, then there is no reason they can't be mailed in accordance with 526.6. And there is no reason to be anything but upfront about the presence of fish in the box. Tell them the fish are in the box, and invite them to inspect the contents. They will see that you have nothing to hide, and be less likely to be suspicious of you. If they do inspect the box, the contents are legal, so, there should be no problem.
#12
Guest_farmertodd_*
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Posted 17 June 2007 - 01:46 PM
so, there should be no problem.
I'll say this as bluntly as possible, since it seems my words are lost in other words.
IT IS NOT WORTH ANY OF THE RISKS TO SHIP A SPORTFISH.
If anything is going to come into question, it's going to be a sportfish.
Even if you are legal, is it worth the hassle if someone up the food chain decides to instigate an investigation?
That's all I'm saying. Do whatever you like.
Todd
#13
Guest_Irate Mormon_*
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Posted 17 June 2007 - 06:40 PM
Even if you are legal, is it worth the hassle if someone up the food chain decides to instigate an investigation?
Yes, it's your chance to stick it to the MAN! Woohoo, fun times ahead!
#14
Guest_Brooklamprey_*
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Posted 17 June 2007 - 07:18 PM
I'll say this as bluntly as possible, since it seems my words are lost in other words.
IT IS NOT WORTH ANY OF THE RISKS TO SHIP A SPORTFISH.
If anything is going to come into question, it's going to be a sportfish.
Even if you are legal, is it worth the hassle if someone up the food chain decides to instigate an investigation?
That's all I'm saying. Do whatever you like.
Todd
WOW Todd you call that blunt...I call that pretty polite..AND VERY ACCURATE...Unless you have the associated permits that specifically says you can deal with Interstate movement of game fish it is not advisable to mess with them.
#15
Guest_teleost_*
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Posted 17 June 2007 - 08:03 PM
Even if you are legal, is it worth the hassle if someone up the food chain decides to instigate an investigation?
The question is...is this legal? I can't honestly answer for every state but I understand that legally obtained fishes are legal to ship to states where the fish is also legal. The gray area seems to be if the carrier is violating the law on the transit states. My state exempts the carrier.
You could be hassled over non game fish as well to be completely honest. With this thinking fish of any type (tropical or native) should never be shipped.
I don't want to discount the thoughts expressed here but is there a legal definition for a sport fish accepted as a national standard? What makes a sunfish (sportfish) any different than a minnow when it comes to shipping? What permits are needed to ship sportfish legally?
#16
Guest_Skipjack_*
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Posted 17 June 2007 - 08:47 PM
I would do it. I would not worry a bit about shipping a gamefish to another keeper. If I know I was legal, then I am not going to let the fear of being questioned by the authorities keep me from doing it. State laws vary though. In Ohio, a legal caught fish is your property, in many states that fish remains property of the state. If you are in a state where this type of law is in effect, then shipping them may be risky business, may be risky business even with minnow types.
The laws were not written for what we do. Everyone involved in this hobby should spend some time on the phone with ths state DNR, and ask questions. Not just any DNR officer, you need one who deals in aquaculture law, You also should get him/her to email what they tell you to you, and you should save it to disc. I stress aquaculture law
The laws were not written for what we do. Everyone involved in this hobby should spend some time on the phone with ths state DNR, and ask questions. Not just any DNR officer, you need one who deals in aquaculture law, You also should get him/her to email what they tell you to you, and you should save it to disc. I stress aquaculture law
#17
Michael Wolfe
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Posted 18 June 2007 - 10:54 AM
Several interesting points by all of the above... but the one that I think is the most practical is that the laws are different in every state... remember on a nothing thread recently we found out that in some states the fish are not even classed as sport and bait fish. They were refered to by other designations (minnow I believe was the term and it applied to a specific family of fish).
So let the shipper beware, and the buyer, and the seller. We are engaged in a hobby that is out fo the main stream and requires us to be knowledgeable about what we are doing. Investigate and proceed with caution and knowledge. But understand that the laws are very different in different states, and there is not an overriding federal law for this type of thing.
So let the shipper beware, and the buyer, and the seller. We are engaged in a hobby that is out fo the main stream and requires us to be knowledgeable about what we are doing. Investigate and proceed with caution and knowledge. But understand that the laws are very different in different states, and there is not an overriding federal law for this type of thing.
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#18
Guest_ipchay61_*
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Posted 18 June 2007 - 01:41 PM
So let the shipper beware, and the buyer, and the seller. We are engaged in a hobby that is out fo the main stream and requires us to be knowledgeable about what we are doing. Investigate and proceed with caution and knowledge. But understand that the laws are very different in different states, and there is not an overriding federal law for this type of thing.
I've always gone by the rule "When in doubt, DON'T".
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