Fisherman Catches Piranha In N.C. River

But then people will complain about the government meddling too much in the hobby (see the legal status of freshwater stingrays thread on aquatic predators). Evidently the consensus there was that people should be relied upon to use common sense when purchasing pets and the government should be minimally involved. I feel that this is an unrealistic expectation because most people don't demonstrate much common sense to begin with, unfortunately. I also think that the government won't be able to handle the permits, the chipping, and all of that (hell, they can't even handle the current passport situation!). And it only takes one idot to introduce an NIS.

But then people will complain about the government meddling too much in the hobby (see the legal status of freshwater stingrays thread on aquatic predators). Evidently the consensus there was that people should be relied upon to use common sense when purchasing pets and the government should be minimally involved. I feel that this is an unrealistic expectation because most people don't demonstrate much common sense to begin with, unfortunately. I also think that the government won't be able to handle the permits, the chipping, and all of that (hell, they can't even handle the current passport situation!). And it only takes one idot to introduce an NIS.

I think we're mixing apples and oranges now. Stingray bans were imposed (presumably) due to the venomous nature of the animal and the states didn't keep up with taxon changes. I believe that Drew is implying the pet shops are selling juvenile fish that attain incredibly large sizes (Pacu and Red Tailed Catfish or RTC) as if they were candy. Very few people own tanks large enough aquariums to house them for life and it's only logical these fish will either die while in captivity at a young age or be released into natural waters (hopefully a closed system if released at all).

I don't like the thought of government involvement simply due to the fact that the most dangerous fish that can be kept then released is after all, what we keep....Fish that already have proven to live quite comfortably in our natural waters. If a person of power was tasked to protect the native fish of this country, the first law that would make any sense would be a complete ban of any live transport of native fish not tropicals. Let's hope the government doesn't decide to make any major changes to possession of our fishes.

I do like the thought of requiring pet shops to "take back" any fish they sell. This will at the very least do a couple of things:
1. Increase the initial sales price of the crazy big fish these stores sell at the 3" size to unsuspecting customers.
2. Force the pet store to weight the benefit of large holding facilities for potential returns vs. the sales of these beastly fish.

They might actually think before they make a purchase of a 100 RTC in their next order.

Ok, so I'm a pet store and selling 100's of pacus, RTCs, etc and I'm forced to take them back? I'd probably have a clove oil pond in the back of the store.

There is no way a store can handle the return of these large fish. These are also their money makers so why would they stop selling them?

Ok, so I'm a pet store and selling 100's of pacus, RTCs, etc and I'm forced to take them back? I'd probably have a clove oil pond in the back of the store.

There is no way a store can handle the return of these large fish. These are also their money makers so why would they stop selling them?

The short answer is, that's too damned bad. With rights go responsibilities, and all that stuff.

I do like the thought of requiring pet shops to "take back" any fish they sell. This will at the very least do a couple of things:
1. Increase the initial sales price of the crazy big fish these stores sell at the 3" size to unsuspecting customers.
2. Force the pet store to weight the benefit of large holding facilities for potential returns vs. the sales of these beastly fish.

They might actually think before they make a purchase of a 100 RTC in their next order.

It's a good idea in theory, but I can see difficulties enforcing it. The customer would have to save their reciept and prove that the store sold it to them. But a lot of these people buying huge tank-busting fish won't be thinking that far ahead to get a "fish prenup" anyway.

The only moderately enforcable options are to keep people from getting the fish in the first place by instating a total ban (which people in the hobby will not like), or you make the fish available and then anticipate what is going to happen -- the fish will get to be 30 lbs, and the owner will panic and dump it in a lake. People will be people, and they make mistakes. You need to give them a way out once they realize they've screwed up. Maybe give them a limited number of chances to return a fish before it results in fines. That way, you won't have idiots continually buying pacus and returning them when they can't take care of them anymore. Then maybe accompany this with chipping and sterilize some of the higher risk fish.

Ok, so I'm a pet store and selling 100's of pacus, RTCs, etc and I'm forced to take them back? I'd probably have a clove oil pond in the back of the store.

There is no way a store can handle the return of these large fish. These are also their money makers so why would they stop selling them?

I support clove oil ponds in the back of pet shops if it eliminates the endless dumping of exotics in natural waters. I'm sure it wouldn't be long before a magazine style TV show ran a hit piece titled "what happens to your fish when returned to Petco". People would be back to chucking them in a lake soon after.

The point I'm making with asking pet shops to take fish back is quite simply front end responsibility. It would at least force the pet shop chains to consider and actually forecast the costs associated with these miniature monster fish sales. I'm sure the few Mom & Pop shops would resort to less civilized techniques.

I honestly think the very best approach here is education. I recently purchased feeders from one of the chain stores and they came in a "Habitattitude" bag. I can't recall exactly what was said on the bag but the message was loud and clear...Don't release fish!

I think in another thread on this forum (or maybe another forum, I don't remember) I had suggested in an idealistic world, people would be required to do some hoop jumping to acquire fish that grow to extreme sizes or that require special care. If the government could find a way to require permits for certain species of fish and reptiles and enforce it would be great. Of course there's no time and money for that, not to mention the manpower. Game wardens can't go door to door and do tank inspections.

over the years, there have been a number of single pacu records from eastern NC waters. There appears to be no reproduction going on and probably are aquarium releases when they get too big.

Ethics and responsibility aside there is little reason to restrict most Neotropical fish. There is truly very little habitat available within the states (Hawaii, South Flordia and south texas aside) for them to actually establish. There are of course those that can (Plecos expanding in Texas) and it is these fish that need the most regulatory action taken on them. Most states have already placed bans on species that would be most undesirable to have around. many are revising those to adapt to new information on movement of established NAS . Without actual enforcement though all is lost and one just sits and waits for the next one. Pacu are IMO a minor threat for the majority of the nation. They have very specific temp tolerances and are not all that hardy. Most in the Hobby are farm raised and few if any serious illnesses have been documented with them. They are really a non issue aside from the potential for being a disease vector by being exposed to other fish that may very well be carrying something nasty and transfer it. Enforcement really needs to be focused elsewhere and on real issues and problems.

None of this should be read as it is appropriate to ever release a fish...It is not and under NO CIRCUMSTANCE should any fish Native or not be released if kept in any type of captive situation.