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Are These Easy? Or Not?

Started by Michael Wolfe , Jul 27 2007 07:38 PM

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19 replies to this topic

#1 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 27 July 2007 - 07:38 PM

These are really just for fun...
All were taken in the Conasauga River...
Include scientific names...

fish_1.jpg 66.49KB 3 downloads

fish_2.jpg 114.32KB 1 downloads

fish_3.jpg 329.71KB 1 downloads

fish_4.jpg 120.82KB 1 downloads

fish_5.jpg 90.22KB 1 downloads

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

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#2 Guest_Irate Mormon_*

Guests

Posted 27 July 2007 - 07:44 PM

Easy - they're all hybrids of one sort or another 8-)

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#3 Guest_Brooklamprey_*

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Posted 27 July 2007 - 08:42 PM

Easy - they're all hybrids of one sort or another

Looks like they are all going to die also...

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#4 Guest_killier_*

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Posted 27 July 2007 - 09:07 PM

bottom two
red eye bass
rock bass
I think I don know for sure though

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#5 Guest_daveneely_*

Guests

Posted 27 July 2007 - 09:11 PM

Looks like they are all going to die also...

Yes, eventually.

Alabama shiner, Cyprinella callistia
Alabama hog sucker, Hypentelium etowanum
(transverse in foreground) Tricolor shiner, Cyprinella trichroistia, background and caudal peduncle in bottom extreme foreground may be more Cyprinella callistia, not enough resolution to say for sure...
Redeye bass, Micropterus coosae
Shadow bass, Ambloplites ariommus

Looks like you had fun!

How about this one, also from the Conasauga?

Attached Files

IMGP0791.JPG 152.5KB 0 downloads

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#6 Guest_teleost_*

Guests

Posted 27 July 2007 - 10:20 PM

sciera?

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#7 Guest_daveneely_*

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Posted 27 July 2007 - 10:25 PM

sciera?

nope.

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#8 Guest_fundulus_*

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Posted 27 July 2007 - 11:00 PM

Maybe I see them everywhere, but I'd say that the last darter is P. maculata.

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#9 Guest_Atratus_*

Guests

Posted 27 July 2007 - 11:12 PM

This is one of my favorite rivers so I'll jump in here real quick.
I'm going to call that a Bridled Darter Percina macrocephala, however I believe the Conasauga form is suppossed to be distinct.

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#10 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 28 July 2007 - 07:52 AM

It's easy to be right after the prez has already spoken... but I was going to say bridled darter also...

...and I have to admit that these are screen captures from some video that I am editing for Farmer Todd... so I didn't actually get i nthe water whenever these were taken, but I have been there and being in the Conasauga is always a good day...

Yes, eventually.

Alabama shiner, Cyprinella callistia
Alabama hog sucker, Hypentelium etowanum
(transverse in foreground) Tricolor shiner, Cyprinella trichroistia, background and caudal peduncle in bottom extreme foreground may be more Cyprinella callistia, not enough resolution to say for sure...
Redeye bass, Micropterus coosae
Shadow bass, Ambloplites ariommus

Looks like you had fun!

How about this one, also from the Conasauga?

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

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#11 Guest_ashtonmj_*

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Posted 28 July 2007 - 09:04 AM

I know what it is :grin:

....Casper and I saw quite a few of them in April.

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#12 Guest_fundulus_*

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Posted 28 July 2007 - 10:17 AM

I considered saying macrocephala after first seeing the picture because I know it's a local species of interest in the Conasauga. But it didn't look like it so I went with maculata because that's what it looked like in the photo, even though my cynical thought was that's too common a species to post in an "easy or not" format. The continuous but irregular black lateral stripe seems more typical of maculata than macrocephala. As a devil's advocate question, why would one ID this photo as macrocephala rather than maculata? I don't doubt that it is, since the photographer would have seen it in the flesh. Inquiring minds want to know.......

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#13 Guest_Atratus_*

Guests

Posted 28 July 2007 - 11:52 AM

I guess technically Percina macrocephala is incorrect because I'm not sure if it has been formally identified yet (as far as I know its Percina sp. cf. P. macrocephala). I don't think you have P. maculata in the Conasauga and the only other similar darter is P. nigrofaciata which has more lateral blotches that are higher than wide. It also is much thinner than the blackbanded and bronze darters. I guess the only reason I exluded the blackside was that I felt pretty confident you wouldn't find it in the Conasauga, however it does occur in the Mobile drainage so I suppose it is possible. I also don't claim to have the same level as expertise as alot of you other guys here, so if I am wrong perhaps you could show me why it is the blackside or otherwise?

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#14 Guest_fundulus_*

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Posted 28 July 2007 - 12:49 PM

My maybe misguided question was, what features in that photograph would make it identifiable as one species as compared to another? In principle there should be one or two key diagnostics that would allow an immediate ID, even though the shortcut in this case is that we know the fish is from the Conasauga.

Or, maybe I'm being a weenie for no good reason.

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#15 Guest_Atratus_*

Guests

Posted 28 July 2007 - 02:04 PM

The lack of the suborbital bar and a basicaudal spot that is only slightly darker (in this case) than the lateral banding. I guess I would have to say that using the stream where the fish was found in is an important factor in identification and generally makes life easier; although I am aware that in many cases it is important to fully key out the animal.

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#16 Guest_Skipjack_*

Guests

Posted 28 July 2007 - 03:00 PM

So, Dave, what is the mystery darter?

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#17 Guest_daveneely_*

Guests

Posted 30 July 2007 - 09:56 AM

So, Dave, what is the mystery darter?

sorry, was away from my computer over the weekend. Yes, it's a bridled darter, and despite people tossing "Percina macrocephala" around, it's not even closely related to P. macrocephala-- its sister species is the muscadine darter from the Tallapoosa River system of Alabama and Georgia.

Bridled darters are easy to ID; the combination of near-continuous and evenly pigmented lateral stripe composed of fused blotches (maculata usually has more contrast between blotches and lateral stripe, plus a different pigmentation pattern in the spiny dorsal and a usually more robust body shape), generally reduced reticulation or saddles on the back, and lack of a teardrop are good characters to use.

The description of this, the muscadine darter, and the Bankhead darter from the Black Warrior system is in press, should be out in a couple of weeks...

cheers,
Dave

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#18 Guest_fundulus_*

Guests

Posted 30 July 2007 - 12:58 PM

Thanks Dave, you done answered my question(s)....

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#19 Guest_daveneely_*

Guests

Posted 30 July 2007 - 01:23 PM

Thanks Dave, you done answered my question(s)....

You're welcome. Here's an extra tidbit...

while to satisfy the ICZN and quasi-official nomenclatural sanctioning bodies (i.e., AFS Names Committee), the Bankhead in the common name of the Sipsey Fork critter officially refers to the Bankhead National Forest (which supports the entire population of this species) and not specifically to an individual, there's also a little bit of a subplot...

this critter appears to at least occasionally hybridize with Percina sciera. We felt that, given this, recognizing the early, ahem, exploits of Tallulah Bankhead (go ahead, google her!) would be particularly appropriate in this case.

cheers,
Dave

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#20 Guest_mzokan_*

Guests

Posted 30 July 2007 - 02:26 PM

We felt that, given this, recognizing the early, ahem, exploits of Tallulah Bankhead (go ahead, google her!) would be particularly appropriate in this case.

cheers,
Dave

Very nice