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Kentucky Notropis (emerald Or Rosyface)

Started by Guest_teleost_* , Aug 20 2007 05:26 PM

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7 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_teleost_*

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Posted 20 August 2007 - 05:26 PM

The below came from the middle fork Kentucky River on the recent sampling trip. I called this rubellus/percobromus (rosyface/carmine) and I can't remember why to be honest (probably pigmentation). On the recent gar trip, It was mentioned that I might have mis-identified this fish. I thought this might be a good topic (Emerald vs. Rosyface) and how to distinguish.

Thanks in advance for your help :happy:

1_155.jpg 188.03KB 1 downloads

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#2 Guest_mzokan_*

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Posted 20 August 2007 - 06:26 PM

I vote rosyface, as far as I know emeralds never have any reddish coloration. However, I'm not sure how you would tell them apart when you don't have a breeding male. All emeralds I have seen are very pale with little dark pigment, rosyface have more dark pigment along the scale edges, but i'm sure it is variable. Call in the experts!

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#3 Guest_ashtonmj_*

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Posted 20 August 2007 - 06:46 PM

Emeralds never develop red pigment. They have anal fin rays of 11 or more and 10 in roseyface. Chin pigmentation (present vs. absent) and position of dorsal fin in relation to anal fin. When you depress the dorsal fin in emeralds is sharply pointed and when depressed the tip extends past the posterior dorsal rays. Head (jaw/snout) parts tend to be longer in roseyfaces.

I would say roseyface, though the anal fin looks a little too concave to me and I even think the caudal peduncle height is a little large.

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#4 Guest_teleost_*

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Posted 20 August 2007 - 07:06 PM

I feel my pigment comment has mislead the membership here. I did not see red pigment near the dorsal or pectoral fins in this specimen. Had I noticed red, this case would be closed. I was referring to the dark pigment in the head and jaw specifically. Sorry for the confusion.

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#5 Guest_bpkeck_*

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Posted 23 August 2007 - 09:47 PM

Without holding it in my hands I'd venture Notropis atherinoides, emerald shiner, by edge scale pigmentation (darker and more defined), mouth angle and distance from eye (upturned and tip of lips closer to eye), dorsal fin origin over anal fin origin (dorsal is relatively close to the anal fin), and body depth to length ratio (fatter in atherinoides = less length to depth). I've seen a decent number of streams in which every fish had some reddish coloration, especially the catostomids and cyprinids; probably a food availability thing. Wish i could collect with you all and have fun,
Ben

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#6 Guest_ashtonmj_*

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Posted 24 August 2007 - 05:37 PM

Without holding it in my hands I'd venture Notropis atherinoides, emerald shiner, by edge scale pigmentation (darker and more defined), mouth angle and distance from eye (upturned and tip of lips closer to eye), dorsal fin origin over anal fin origin (dorsal is relatively close to the anal fin), and body depth to length ratio (fatter in atherinoides = less length to depth). I've seen a decent number of streams in which every fish had some reddish coloration, especially the catostomids and cyprinids; probably a food availability thing. Wish i could collect with you all and have fun,
Ben

Yeah that is why even mid post I started to lean to antheroides....

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#7 Guest_mzokan_*

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Posted 26 August 2007 - 11:21 AM

Yeah that is why even mid post I started to lean to antheroides....

Yeah, after a second look I'll concede to atherinoides too. Short snout, appears to have 11 anal rays, little pigment along lateral line, curved margin of anal fin........ just shows that southerners should stay out of midwestern minnow discussions

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#8 Guest_teleost_*

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Posted 26 August 2007 - 12:33 PM

This has been a valuable thread to me and I want to thank all of you for your time with this fish. I will also concede and name this fish appropriately as Notropis atherinoides. I'm a bit confused by conflicting accounts in books but I doubt that will ever change for me. I'm also confused by comparison photos of fish that I'm sure are rosyface having a short snout etc. etc.