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Lepomis megalotis

Started by Guest_teleost_* , Sep 21 2006 04:19 PM

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17 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_teleost_*

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Posted 21 September 2006 - 04:19 PM

This is a picture of two fishes of similar size captured in the same net haul this summer in north-eastern Illinois. The lower fish has characteristics of both longear and green sunfish. What do you think?

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#2 Guest_dredcon_*

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Posted 21 September 2006 - 04:54 PM

I see what you are talking about with the second fish, but its hard for me say anything absolute from a picture alone. You released these?

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#3 Guest_teleost_*

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Posted 21 September 2006 - 04:57 PM

I see what you are talking about with the second fish, but its hard for me say anything absolute from a picture alone. You released these?

Yes I had to let them go. I don't have the permits to keep sunfish collected with nets

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#4 Guest_dsmith73_*

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Posted 21 September 2006 - 05:05 PM

I know it may be an unpopular view, but I still think they are variants of the same fish, both megalotis.

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#5 Guest_dredcon_*

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Posted 21 September 2006 - 05:10 PM

Shoulda taken fin clips hehehe. Looking at the length of the gill rakers is a good idea for questionable Lepomis too, but it can be traumatic to the fish.

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#6 Guest_teleost_*

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Posted 21 September 2006 - 05:12 PM

I know it may be an unpopular view, but I still think they are variants of the same fish, both megalotis.

I have to say that I'm not a believer in sunfish hybridization. This area is also fuled by clear groundwater. At the same time I've never seen a longear look like the lower fish and can't explain this fishes characteristics.

Unpopular or not, a large portion of me wants to agree with you.

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#7 Guest_Irate Mormon_*

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Posted 21 September 2006 - 10:33 PM

Looks like a generic longear to me, Mississippi type...

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#8 Guest_teleost_*

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Posted 22 September 2006 - 08:10 AM

Looks like a generic longear to me, Mississippi type...

This is interesting. I'll assume you mean the lower fish? If by any chance you have a pic of a similar looking longear I would love to see it. In all of the years in the water around here, I've not yet found a longear like the lower fish. Maybe it's a well traveled mississippi longear :lol:

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#9 Guest_dsmith73_*

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Posted 22 September 2006 - 09:53 AM

I was thinking....maybe it could be that somehow this is the southern subspecies. Are you firmly in peltastes range? Or is it possible that you are in an area where both megalotis and peltastes could be found comingling?

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#10 Guest_dredcon_*

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Posted 22 September 2006 - 01:31 PM

If I had a camera in my office today I would take a pic of the one that lives on my desk, but its a Louisiana longear.

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#11 Guest_Irate Mormon_*

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Posted 22 September 2006 - 06:33 PM

This is interesting. I'll assume you mean the lower fish? If by any chance you have a pic of a similar looking longear I would love to see it. In all of the years in the water around here, I've not yet found a longear like the lower fish. Maybe it's a well traveled mississippi longear

The upper fish is the one that looks odd to me...

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#12 Guest_teleost_*

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Posted 22 September 2006 - 06:47 PM

I was thinking....maybe it could be that somehow this is the southern subspecies. Are you firmly in peltastes range? Or is it possible that you are in an area where both megalotis and peltastes could be found comingling?

What is pelatastes range? As far as I know peltastes is not fully recognized. I can't find firm data on thier proposed range. I'm In Northern Illinois near Chicago. This should put me solidly in range but I'm not 100% certain.

The upper fish is the one that looks odd to me...

Well, I guess this is one of the reasons this forum exists. It's always fun to talk fish and thier differences with people from hundreds of miles away. BTW: the top fish is all we usually have around here. Also I must say fish in the extreme southern porion of Illinois (350 miles south) look much more like the top fish than the bottom fish. I don't have picture to prove this however.

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#13 Guest_dredcon_*

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Posted 22 September 2006 - 06:59 PM

The longears I catch down here look much like the top fish, except the opercal flap is bigger in the fish here.

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#14 Guest_teleost_*

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Posted 22 September 2006 - 07:11 PM

The longears I catch down here look much like the top fish, except the opercal flap is bigger in the fish here.

I should mention the fact that both fish here are small. About 4" total length. These fish were found in a small ditch with heavy weed cover. Generally speaking fish don't get very large in this ditch.

Below shot is an adult from the same drainage 35 river miles away.

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#15 Guest_dsmith73_*

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Posted 22 September 2006 - 07:29 PM

I was thinking....maybe it could be that somehow this is the southern subspecies. Are you firmly in peltastes range? Or is it possible that you are in an area where both megalotis and peltastes could be found comingling?

What is pelatastes range? As far as I know peltastes is not fully recognized. I can't find firm data on thier proposed range. I'm In Northern Illinois near Chicago. This should put me solidly in range but I'm not 100% certain.

The subspecies peltastes is well documented, but I don't know the range either. What does the Trautman book say? Does anyone know? I would assume that Chicago is well within the peltastes range, but I really don't know.

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#16 Guest_teleost_*

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Posted 22 September 2006 - 07:41 PM

When you say recognized do you mean as a subspecies of megalotis or a full blown species?

I'm glad I'm not the only one that unfamiliar with the range. But I hope someone here is.

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#17 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 22 September 2006 - 09:01 PM

According to Trautman the Peltastes range begins just north of Columbus Ohio, I assume this should encompass Chicago.
Furthermore the longears we were collecting in this ditch were generally very different from the longears in my home waters, which should be L. m. megalotis. The second fish looks like niether. Body shape maybe, but coloration no.
I have spent several hours today looking at Ohio EPA collection data, and they describe MANY Lepomis hybrids.
I am still with the hybrid school of thought on this fish.
I have witnessed atempted sunfish hybridization in one of my own tanks. A male cyanellus was courting a female of the same species. They fully spawned, but every chance possible, a juvenile megalotis would charge in and dump milt..
The mating was not successful, but I am sure under proper conditions, it could have been.

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#18 Guest_dsmith73_*

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Posted 23 September 2006 - 04:41 PM

When you say recognized do you mean as a subspecies of megalotis or a full blown species?

I'm glad I'm not the only one that unfamiliar with the range. But I hope someone here is.

I meant subspecies. I still don't believe it has been elevated to full species, at least not officially.