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Notropis What?

Started by Guest_teleost_* , Nov 04 2007 10:02 PM

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11 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_teleost_*

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Posted 04 November 2007 - 10:02 PM

This fish was found in Grundy county Illinois, Aux Sable creek (trib of the Illinois river). Both Notropis stramineus and Notropis volucellus have been recorded here.

Posted Image

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#2 Guest_Brooklamprey_*

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Posted 04 November 2007 - 10:14 PM

Me thinks Mimic... (Might be wrong though) just my 2 cents
looks like 8 anal fin rays and snout not pronounced and pointy..looks pretty blunt

Edit: Uland start taking dorsal shots of these silvery things sometimes this can easily distinguish some species..

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#3 Guest_FishandFire_*

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Posted 04 November 2007 - 10:19 PM

Not knowing exactly where you are located, it could be a Notropis Buccatus (Silverjaw Minnow). You would be on the very northern edge of their habitat in Illinois (if they reach that far North).

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#4 Guest_teleost_*

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Posted 04 November 2007 - 10:37 PM

Me thinks Mimic... (Might be wrong though) just my 2 cents
looks like 8 anal fin rays and snout not pronounced and pointy..looks pretty blunt

Edit: Uland start taking dorsal shots of these silvery things sometimes this can easily distinguish some species..

I also count 8 anal rays but there was a faint wedge at the dorsal fin but no dorsal stripe. I really need to work in distinguishing Sand & Mimic shiner.

I'll work this winter on a device for good dorsal shots on live specimens (wish me luck).

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#5 Guest_Brooklamprey_*

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Posted 04 November 2007 - 10:44 PM

I'll work this winter on a device for good dorsal shots on live specimens (wish me luck).

Did I ever send you that paper where they designed a photo tank that would take dorsal and lateral shots at the same time using mirrors? I know I mentioned it...

Well if I did not send it I'll hunt it back down and get this to you... Redbelly dace study if I remember.

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#6 Guest_smbass_*

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Posted 05 November 2007 - 09:05 AM

Based on the 8 anal rays and no dorsal stripe only some pigment right at the dorsal fin and the scales along the lateral line appear to be taller than they are wide and more angular and not rounded I am prety confident in calling this a mimic and not a sand. If it were a sand there would be a mid dorsal stripe, 7 anal fin rays and scales would be only slightly taller than wide along with being somewhat rounded and less angular.

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#7 Guest_natureman187_*

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Posted 05 November 2007 - 09:22 AM

lol Uland, was about ready to make a topic like this - I think we may have the same fish.
Maybe

I said sand shiner but my sloppy photo technique doesn't help much

Taken From mid Sangamon River yesterday.

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mimic.jpg 43.73KB 2 downloads

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#8 Guest_smbass_*

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Posted 05 November 2007 - 09:37 AM

that one will be tough to get a positive id on without some more info. You realy need to be able to atleast see the anal fin clearly in the picture.

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#9 Guest_daveneely_*

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Posted 05 November 2007 - 11:42 AM

I think both are sand shiners; taller vs. wider aside (and those are both good characters), the anterior lateral line scales in N. volucellus are dramatically different in shape from the adjacent scales, whereas in these (at least in Uland's fish) the scales are nearly the same shape. Mimic shiners also have a different head shape, but that's hard to quantify - it's more of a gestalt thing.

Cheers,
Dave

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#10 Guest_teleost_*

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Posted 06 November 2007 - 11:32 AM

I'm not sure if this will complicate this discussion but I have a photo of what was called a Mimic shiner sampled form the Big South Fork Cumberland river about a month ago.

The fish sampled from Aux Sable Creek, Grundy county Illinois (trib of the Illinois river) is situated above the BSF fish which is presumably a mimic shiner.

Posted Image

I guess I'm curious to know if this helps the discussion in any way.

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#11 Guest_NateTessler13_*

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Posted 06 November 2007 - 11:44 AM

I would call it a Mimic Shiner. I understand that the anterior scales on that lateral line on a Mimic Shiner are at least twice as tall as they are wide. Smaller than that has been a giveaway to it being a Sand Shiner. The Mimic Shiner is definitely the rarer of those two similar Notropis sp. in Illinios as you know. The bottom picture of your Mimic Shiner looks to me like one taken from clear water and malnutritioned.