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Large clams in Grand/Neosho Resevoirs


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#1 Guest_Seedy_*

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Posted 06 December 2007 - 12:27 AM

There's a spot on Lake Hudson (NE Oklahoma reservoir on the Neosho/Grand River) that we will call "Nookie Hollow" that is a mud bottom cove on the upper reaches of the reservoir on the inside of a bend of the lake not too far down from what is considered "river". The substrate is thick mud with few smaller rocks with lots of silt from nearby pasture land. When I was younger we used to go swimming there and find clams with our feet. The clams were up to 6 inches across. Does any one have any idea what kind of clams we used to step on?

#2 Guest_fundulus_*

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Posted 06 December 2007 - 10:56 AM

They were probably either floaters, or giant floaters. Both species get up to about the size you describe, and can tolerate muddy substrates in reservoirs which right there rules out most species.

#3 Guest_Seedy_*

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Posted 06 December 2007 - 04:06 PM

Thanks! Anodonta grandis (Giant Floater) seems to match my memory. I take it that these are fairly common?

#4 Guest_fundulus_*

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Posted 06 December 2007 - 05:41 PM

Yes, the various floaters are common because they do well in the reservoir environments created by damns. And if you find one floater, I can guarantee you'll find lots of others. Other species more or less tolerant of the same conditions include pink heelsplitters, creepers and yellow sandshells.

#5 Guest_ashtonmj_*

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Posted 06 December 2007 - 07:25 PM

Mussels, not clams :grin: ...there are anatomical differences between the two, and Anodonta grandis is now known as Pyganodon grandis. Yes I know the articles say otherwise, but alot of the taxonomy in that is currently incorrect. Most nomenclature for mussels follows Turgeon et al unless updated since that publication (e.g. Lampsilis alatus is now something like Hemistanus).

I found this with a simple "Mussels Oklahoma" Google search, since I'm unfamiliar with distributions west of the Mississippi River and some of the unique species. The list seems to be a mix of Ozarkian (yes that's a mussel faunal province) and Interior Basin/Mississipian.

http://digital.libra.../v62/p38_45.pdf
http://digital.libra.../v63/p49_59.pdf

#6 Guest_Seedy_*

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Posted 09 December 2007 - 04:45 PM

I did not realize the difference between clams and mussels! I didn't realize that mussels had a parasitic stage either. Very interesting. I'm glad I asked this question! Any idea what kind of fish is the vector for these mussels?

#7 Guest_ashtonmj_*

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Posted 09 December 2007 - 05:43 PM

Yup they are related but have some very different features between them. The need for a host and the strategies of host attraction is one of the most interesting things about mussels to me. Wanna explain how something with no eyes and that nervous system develops a lure that mimics macroinvertebrates and fish (almost down to the species level)? Or why they have shell shapes and color patterns that they do. Well if it's a P. grandis, largemouth bass are the typical host though they have several. That is one reason why they show up in so many ponds and lakes. Not coincidentally, some of the species that are found in muddy substrates and slower water have hosts like gamefish species (bullheads, bass, bluegills) Was what you found relatively light and felt thin shelled?

#8 Guest_Seedy_*

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Posted 09 December 2007 - 06:26 PM

Yes, I remember the dead washed up ones and they had very thin shells. I used to think there was something wrong with them! So, with bass and other game fish being the vector, has any one tried to aquaculture them or keep them in the aquarium? Suppose one had a 6 foot 200+ gallon tank with a potting soil/peat substrate with a few younger large mouth bass...Then you were to add the mussels...

Do you think they would reproduce in the aquarium, or are we still missing another host or key trigger?

#9 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 09 December 2007 - 07:06 PM

The typical problem with keeping mussels in an aquarium is keeping them fed. Since they are filter feeders, they need lots of microorganisms in the water column. An aquarium typically does not have nearly enough, and they slowly starve. The mussel breeding facility in Columbus Ohio, pulls in river water to keep them fed. I suppose if you had a large greenwater culture outdoors, and added it to an aquarium daily, you might be able to keep a couple alive.

#10 Guest_ashtonmj_*

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Posted 09 December 2007 - 07:15 PM

Mussels have been aquacultured for decades, primarily for the button industry until plastic came around WWII and later for the pearl industry. Culture pearls are essentially mussels with a thin oyster pearl coating. Thin shelled species like the one you found are essentially useless to the commercial musseling industry. There is nothing wrong with them, there is just a family of mussels (Anodontines) that are thin shelled. Most mussel culture now for breeding purposes is done to procude T&E species and is done primarily in intensive small tank systems or raceways. Transforming glochidia on fish isn't the hard part, it is the rearing of newly transformed juvenille mussels and the substantial mortality. There have been studies where large outdoor tanks with common species of mussels and suitable host fish and it didn't equate to mussel recruitment.

I have a few pictures of my former graduate school's mussel propagation lab somewhere, just haven't found them yet. Ohio State has a good website of their new facilities. They are becoming more frequent though as techniques become more efficient and mussel imperilement increases. As far as I know there are state or federal facilities in AL (really wanted to work at that new place), MN, MO, TN, KY, VA, GA, maybe NC and heard about one in the works in AR.

Since Matt posted while I posted: Even flow through systems don't seem to always provide enough/proper food, nutrients, and water conditions. For diet studies we used 6-8 6' high x 1' diameter columns raising different food sources.

#11 Guest_ashtonmj_*

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Posted 10 December 2007 - 09:48 AM

Still can't find those pictures but I had never looked at this website before and actually foudn it to be quite informative and nicely set up.

Va Tech Mussel Lab




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