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Fishes that are Endangered, Threatened, SOC


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#41 Guest_mikez_*

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Posted 11 December 2007 - 08:18 PM

There's an awful lot we can learn from the native herp-keeper community, mostly what NOT to do. Given the high levels of illegal take of many protected (and unprotected) herps, it's understandable that many states are hyper-vigilant regarding some species - bog and spotted turtles, indigo snakes, and several spp. of western rattlesnakes come to mind, as does the massive export of turtles from the US to Asia for food. Just hope that the Chinese don't find out that darters taste good!!


The protection can get a little illogical at times. The snakes in my example are in the backyards of people who have pledged to kill any that come into their yards. Yards that were built with the full knowledge of the rare species and the agreement of the state. An illegal off road motor bike trail crosses about 50 feet from the den but has never been bothered by the state. My friend who got accosted and threatened by the game warden is a law abiding ardent conservationist.

My point here is that what seems like innocent and harmless behavoir can be enough to bring down the heat in certain context.

As far as knuckleheads shooting off their mouths about taking protected species by accident, it happens. No good can come from trying to pretend otherwise. The obvious point of the original thread was to encourage collectors to educate themselves so that it would happen less often. I chimed in to give a real life example.
For what it's worth, I did make an official rare species report to the state.

#42 Guest_keepnatives_*

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Posted 11 December 2007 - 10:57 PM

We are all working on this Dave, believe me the administration is racking it's collective brains on this topic. "How do we educate newcomers without offending them?" I am not sure it can be done. We are working on new policies with hopes that we can quickly rectify these posts, and get to the bottom of the situation.

Everytime someone posts photos of fish that they have brought home without properly IDing first puts a blackmark on our organization. The positive is that these people are rarely Nanfa members, and we are trying our best to educate them. The downside is that Nanfa or not, the powers that be will simply lump all native enthusiasts together.

We are open to ideas, if anyone has some good ones, please feel free to PM me.

Also we will not tolerate illegal take. If you break laws, and discuss them openly on this forum, you will be dealt with.

This issue has been tough to deal with. I think the biggest problem is that too often the first post draws a barrage of what could be interpreted as attacks. How about limiting who does the policing? In fact as part of the sign up process have a message (audio too maybe) explaining the issue and make it a forum policy to have the mods immediately upon discovery remove any post that implies possible trangression. Perhaps the mod could contact the poster and check if there is some info missing that makes it clearly legal, then the post could be edited to indicate that info. Then the rest of us leave it to the mods which should greatly reduce the feelings of attack a newcomer might feel. It might be a good idea to develope a script guideline of what the mods should use to be able to do it in the least offensive way possible. No offense meant to you moderators but we're all human and on any given day one might be less diplomatic then normal.

Although I have a fairly thick skin (goes nicely with my hard head) I have found even some elite members making judgements without enough knowledge (not that I haven't as well) so I'm a little leary of making an open season on cracking down.

I also think addressing the hobbyist side of native fish keeping Dave mentioned is getting more and more important. But without addressing the illegal take issue it would be an unlikely accomplishment.

#43 Guest_truf_*

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Posted 12 December 2007 - 12:57 AM

This from the Ohio Department of Natural Resources website on endangered species:

http://www.dnr.state...spx?tabid=18644


"Any unusual or apparently rare fish species that is encountered while seining or trapping for bait should be returned to the water. The chance of catching an endangered fish is so unlikely, it should not deter anyone from collecting bait fish."

Pretty vague guidelines to be sure. For the average Joe, what would constitute an "unusual or apparently rare" fish? To a new guy without an ichthyology degree, every fish is unusual and apparently rare. Every time you go collecting, it is a new experience, with new and unfamiliar fish. Frankly, that's half the fun. If everyone knew exactly what species they had before they brought them home there would be no need for an "identification assistance" section.
Often after studying a fish for weeks, I still can't figure out exactly what it is. Now, let me be clear, everyone should make an effort to get a guide to the fish that should not be taken in your area and make an effort to avoid the collecting of these species. But to a new hobbyist, identification is not the easiest of endeavors. Only through experience, and the help of other native fish enthusiasts, can a hobbyist hope to learn the finer details of identification. Through that experience and the gentle guiding hand of NANFA an those who have gone before, they can avoid the consequences of collecting an illegal fish.

-Thom

#44 Guest_drewish_*

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Posted 12 December 2007 - 01:22 AM

This issue has been tough to deal with. I think the biggest problem is that too often the first post draws a barrage of what could be interpreted as attacks. How about limiting who does the policing? In fact as part of the sign up process have a message (audio too maybe) explaining the issue and make it a forum policy to have the mods immediately upon discovery remove any post that implies possible trangression. Perhaps the mod could contact the poster and check if there is some info missing that makes it clearly legal, then the post could be edited to indicate that info. Then the rest of us leave it to the mods which should greatly reduce the feelings of attack a newcomer might feel. It might be a good idea to develope a script guideline of what the mods should use to be able to do it in the least offensive way possible. No offense meant to you moderators but we're all human and on any given day one might be less diplomatic then normal.

Although I have a fairly thick skin (goes nicely with my hard head) I have found even some elite members making judgements without enough knowledge (not that I haven't as well) so I'm a little leary of making an open season on cracking down.

I also think addressing the hobbyist side of native fish keeping Dave mentioned is getting more and more important. But without addressing the illegal take issue it would be an unlikely accomplishment.


It is funny you suggest this. This is exactly what we've put in place the past week or so. We will continue to tweak the process as different problems pop up. The point of my "deleted posts" thread was to explain why a post would "disappear". In fact, we do have set responses that we will be using for different situations.

While the primary focus of NANFA is not hobby based, it is a big part. There are a handful of NANFA members who preferred the low profile status of NANFA, but we have changed that. And with that change, we are responsible these issues.

I was excited to see that a recent forum member stated that after reading the forum, he understand why it was wrong to release fish back into the wild. I have a feeling that a respectful discussion of illegal-legal take would do the same for new members. And that would mean not insulting anyone with names, aggressive posts, or anything of that sort. Just plain facts.

I think as a group we can get through this. I also believe "big brother" will like to see that we are working to prevent illegal take by educating the general public and not playing shadow games.

#45 Guest_ashtonmj_*

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Posted 12 December 2007 - 06:41 AM

This from the Ohio Department of Natural Resources website on endangered species:

http://www.dnr.state...spx?tabid=18644
"Any unusual or apparently rare fish species that is encountered while seining or trapping for bait should be returned to the water. The chance of catching an endangered fish is so unlikely, it should not deter anyone from collecting bait fish."


That's not so much a regulation as a guideline. There are existing regulations regarding take and posessoin of T & E species in Ohio on the DNAP/Heritage (right Matt? - there are too many from/in Ohio) website and I'm sure can be found a couple other places.

#46 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 12 December 2007 - 04:43 PM

http://www.dnr.state...spx?tabid=18644 Myself, and Brian Zimmerman both hold this license. These are basic guidlines. Sadly the state does not provide the list of T&E species to its licensed bait dealers. Even better ODNR should provide an ID key to its bait dealers to prevent listed species being taken as bycatch.
Contrary to the DNR's statement suggesting that you are unlikely to find listed species, I find many in a years netting. An average bait dealer may in fact let many listed species through unknowingly. By the way, neither Brian nor I are bait dealers, this comes as part of our aquaculture license.

This does not concern bait dealers, but this summer while netting a stream in southern Ohio, I was excited to find lots of Rosyside Dace. Threatened. My friend who has property down there knew a local, so he checked his minnow trap, sure enough full of clinostomus. He told the local that he should not use them for bait. He said that he had been using them for years.

http://www.dnr.state...05/default.aspx

#47 Guest_tglassburner_*

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Posted 12 December 2007 - 06:20 PM

http://www.dnr.state...spx?tabid=18644 Myself, and Brian Zimmerman both hold this license.


Do you hold other licenses/ permits from ODNR?Just curious.

Tom

#48 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 12 December 2007 - 06:57 PM

Yes, I hold a few permits for here, and there.

#49 Guest_tglassburner_*

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Posted 12 December 2007 - 07:32 PM

Yes, I hold a few permits for here, and there.

;)

#50 Guest_LincolnUMike_*

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Posted 25 August 2011 - 08:32 PM

As a newbie on the site (Thanks centrarchid for the info!) I appreciate seeing the devotion to legal issues and conservation. Mo. Dept. of Conservation now has a field guide to endangered species.

http://mdc.mo.gov/di...ies-field-guide

With that, I will say hello to NANFA and do wish I had the spare $ for membership. I am currently a full time student and working on a minor in aquaculture. Actually looking forward to this semester (but it is going to be intense!).

#51 Guest_Mike_*

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 12:08 AM

State Endangered

Ichthyomyzon fossor northern brook lamprey
Acipenser fulvescens lake sturgeon
Clinostomus elongatus redside dace
Hybopsis amnis pallid shiner
Moxostoma valenciennesi greater redhorse
Amblyopsis spelaea northern cavefish
Lepomis symmetricus bantam sunfish
Etheostoma variatum variegate darter
Percina copelandi channel darter
Percina evides gilt darter

Special Concern

Notropis anogenus pugnose shiner
Notropis dorsalis bigmouth shiner
Rhinichthys cataractae longnose dace
Catostomus catostomus longnose sucker
Noturus stigmosus northern madtom
Coregonus artedi cisco
Coregonus clupeaformis lake whitefish
Percopsis omiscomaycus trout-perch
Cottus cognatus slimy sculpin
Ammocrypta clara western sand darter
Etheostoma maculatum spotted darter
Etheostoma proeliare cypress darter
Etheostoma tippecanoe Tippecanoe darter
Elassoma zonatum banded pygmy sunfish

Extirpated (species that were well documented in the state but no longer occur here)
GENUS SPECIES COMMON NAME

Atractosteus spatula alligator gar
Alosa alabamae Alabama shad
Notropis ariommus popeye shiner
Moxostoma lacerum harelip sucker
Coregonus nigripinnis blackfin cisco
Coregonus reighardi shortnose cisco
Coregonus zenithicus shortjaw cisco
Typhlichthys subterraneus southern cavefish
Crystallaria asprella crystal darter
Percina uranidea stargazing darter
Percina vigil saddleback darter

Edited by Mike, 29 August 2011 - 12:16 AM.


#52 Guest_panfisherteen_*

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Posted 05 September 2011 - 04:36 PM

ONTARIO

Extinct:
Salmo salar Atlantic Salmon (Lake Ontario population)*
Coregonus nigripinnis Blackfin Cisco
Sander vitreus glaucus Blue Pike
Coregonus johannae Deepwater Cisco
Coregonus kiyi orientalis Kiyi (Lake Ontario population)

*It is to be noted that adult fish have been observed returning to the streams they were stocked. No known natural reproduction as of yet.

Extirpated:
Erimystax x-punctatus Gravel Chub
Polyodon spathula Paddlefish

Endangered:
Anguilla rostrata American Eel
Salvelinus fontinalis timagamiensis Aurora Trout
Ammocrypta pellucida Eastern Sand Darter
Noturus stigmosus Northern Madtom
Notropis anogenus Pugnose Shiner
Clinostomus elongatus Redside Dace
Coregonus reighardi Shortnose Cisco

Threatened:
Moxostoma duquesnei Black Redhorse
Percina copelandi Channel Darter
Exoglossum maxillingua Cutlip Minnow
Erimyzon sucetta Lake Chubsucker
Coregonus zenithicus Shortjaw Cisco
Lepisosteus oculatus Spotted Gar

Special Concern:
Fundulus notatus Blackstripe Topminnow
Notropis bifrenatus Bridle Shiner
Esox americanus vermiculatus Grass Pickerel
Coregonus kiyi kiyi Kiyi(Upper Great Lakes population)
Acipenser fulvescens Lake Sturgeon
Ichthyomyzon fossor Northern Brook Lamprey
Opsopoeodus emiliae Pugnose Minnow
Moxostoma carinatum River Redhorse
Macrhybopsis storeriana Silver Chub
Notropis photogenis Silver Shiner
Minytrema melanops Spotted Sucker
Lepomis gulosus Warmouth



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