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captive breeding suckers(?)


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#1 Guest_puchisapo_*

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Posted 18 December 2007 - 07:23 PM

i intend to collect a few individuals of a sucker species that stays pretty small, Moxostoma austrinum. i will have more interest in investing in their care if i might be able to get a colony established. does anybody have any experience or know anything about captive breeding of suckers. i think it must be tricky(?).

#2 Guest_ashtonmj_*

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Posted 18 December 2007 - 07:49 PM

I think tricky is an understatement.

Unless you have hundred(s) of gallon aquaria or a raceway at your disposal.

#3 Guest_puchisapo_*

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Posted 18 December 2007 - 07:52 PM

yeah, that's what i understood too. like i said, however, this species is pretty small at maturity. i would love to kow about published accounts. -D

#4 Guest_puchisapo_*

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Posted 31 December 2007 - 07:37 PM

does anybody have any other information at all? i have looked around some but don't see any published work on breeding suckers. there must be something(?).

#5 Guest_farmertodd_*

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Posted 31 December 2007 - 07:50 PM

So far as I know, no one was consistently keeping them alive in captivity until I started playing with this deep live substrate business. At this point, others and I have now have kept many species and grow them just fine... Breeding is a whole other matter.

I really doubt you'll be able to replicate the hydraulics necessary to trigger a spawn. Have you ever been someplace where any Catostomid breeds? Many times below power generating dams it takes generation flows to get them in the mood. That's an unbelieveable amount of water. In many case, managers and scientists are trying to figure out what the MINIMUM flow is to allow for continual breeding. And that's in rivers.

I hate to give you a grim response on your idea, but I'd just be content with rearing them from juveniles and enjoying them through their lives.

Todd

#6 Guest_puchisapo_*

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Posted 31 December 2007 - 11:19 PM

when we were kids we used to catch redhorse when they spawned in the spring. one spot was the Hay River in Dunn County. WI, which ran fast and muddy in the spring. the fish were so thick that we were able to fill 5-gallon pails in no time. my mom pickled them and they were delicious.

i imagined it would be difficult. it occured to me to try because this species is relatively small (6-8"?) and the population i know is in a small, pretty mellow stream.

#7 Guest_farmertodd_*

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Posted 01 January 2008 - 12:51 AM

I haven't looked at this species in the Atlas of Fishes, but Fishbase had the max length at 49 cm. That's almost 20". You might catch some juveniles though and rear them up. I really enjoy keeping the smaller Moxostoma.

Todd

#8 Michael Wolfe

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Posted 01 January 2008 - 10:52 AM

... and wouldn't that be a really long time? I mean I thought that some of these Redhorse live for decades... so if one were to be able to get a small fish and do a good jb taking care of it... how long are we talking about?

I hate to give you a grim response on your idea, but I'd just be content with rearing them from juveniles and enjoying them through their lives.

Todd


Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

#9 Guest_farmertodd_*

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Posted 01 January 2008 - 02:07 PM

I think a lot of that depends on the productivity of the environment, since spawning is so rough on suckers. The big males just aren't eating the entire time they're there.

What makes them spawning size fish is more based on food availability, not so much time. You can produce fertile adults in 3 years with most species, but the really fecund, territorial types are a 6 year or greater cycle where food isn't limited.

I'm on year 4 with my blacktail redhorse. In comparing him to breeding adult size, he's got another couple years. So maxing out their size is a 7-10 year process in my aquaria. Similar story for golden and black.

The shorthead I kept, on the other hand, sheesh, he bolted huge once I got them to a size where they could feed on krill. I ended up having to put him down after 2 years. He was banging himself up too much. The spotted sucker I kept went 3 years, and then met the same demise. He was probably 80% of max length.

I've got some juvenile silvers now, we'll see how they grow up. They are coated in trematodes tho, so that may pull resources until they mature into their next phase.

Todd

#10 Guest_Irate Mormon_*

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Posted 01 January 2008 - 06:46 PM

I hate to give you a grim response on your idea, but I'd just be content with rearing them from juveniles and enjoying them through their lives.

Todd


I bet you could do it with a modified Ferguson Flume.

#11 Guest_puchisapo_*

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Posted 02 January 2008 - 01:25 AM

well, i might fetch some if i still have room after my other collecting. i had guessed that these fish were not so big because it's a real small stream. i had seen many of them and all were ~6".

when i lived down there in '06 i kept a tank, to which i introduced several M. austrinum. of six fish, only two learned to eat the foood that i offered. the rest starved. the survivors were really cool fish and looked great in the community with their tankmates.



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