Changed My Substrate Tonight

Well after weeks of self doubt and dread, I finally pulled the trigger and changed the substrate in my 29 Gallon native tank. It used to have a rather boring almost white sand/gravel mix. My fish always seemed to be a bit pale and washed out looking, especially my Variegate Darters. I believed that this was due to them trying to camouflage themselves in the light colored sand. I used a layer of generic potting soil (Green Thumb without fertilizer) mixed with some Fluorite, then about an inch of Eco-Complete Planted Aquarium Substrate. On top of this I used about an inch of Black Onyx Sand. Although the water is still quite cloudy, I can see that the Darters have darkened considerably. They look much better already! My plan is to plant it heavily. I had some plants in it previously, but not much, and I have since collected some native plants. We'll see how this goes. Hopefully I haven't killed too many of my little native friends. Cross you fingers!
-Thom

PS...Has anyone noticed their fish darkening due to darker substrate?

EDIT: OOOOH! Almost forgot I also changed the substrate in my 5 1/2 Gallon too...I know you all would want to know.

Biofilms will lock up the fine particles fairly quickly, esp if this was already an established tank. I switched my Dad's 29 gallon out two nights ago with mud from the forest behind his house, and it was clear today. With the sand and plants, Dad can't believe the change in his clown loaches. Within 30 minutes of going back in the tank, they were at the front checking us out. He'd never had that experience. I just laughed. I had one that use to lay in front on his back waiting for me to put food in. Danged things are like dogs when you give them their habitat Darters work the same. You'll be enjoying some fired up fish shortly!

Todd

Todd,

Do you suggest just using regular old topsoil from outside? Or purchasing something more specific?

Biofilms will lock up the fine particles fairly quickly, esp if this was already an established tank. I switched my Dad's 29 gallon out two nights ago with mud from the forest behind his house, and it was clear today. With the sand and plants, Dad can't believe the change in his clown loaches. Within 30 minutes of going back in the tank, they were at the front checking us out. He'd never had that experience. I just laughed. I had one that use to lay in front on his back waiting for me to put food in. Danged things are like dogs when you give them their habitat Darters work the same. You'll be enjoying some fired up fish shortly!

Todd

I've heard(read) you mention "live" substrates before for aquariums. I found a sand/rock bed in my creek and might pull some for one of my tanks. I don't want to take too much though for fear of deforming the habitat. How much would I need for a 30g tank? A 5 gallon bucket-full?

Todd,

Do you suggest just using regular old topsoil from outside? Or purchasing something more specific?

Hey Magnus, saw your post on the e-list, was gonna do email tomorrow.

Walstad says get it from the woods, that's what we did with Dad's tank. So I don't have any experience with that yet.

I depleted my soil in the 100 gallon after 3 years of heavy harvesting, so I did a switch out two month ago with stuff from the back yard. So this really is my first shot at good ol' soil, roots and all lol. Everything is doing great.

I think a lot of it depends on what the parent materials were and what's in it. You guys on the Atlantic slope can have some pretty poor soils, so I'd go for richer and clayier if you can.

The stuff I used was sod I composted up when I put in one of my gardens. I don't think the guy before us really cared all that much about lawn, so it wasn't like it was saturated in lawn chemicals, I would however be cautious about this!


Steve,

A 5 gallon bucket would probably be too much for a 30 gallon. You're just trying to seed stuff in. I'd do hand grabs in different areas of the riffles and sand bars to optomize the taxa you potentially catch.

Todd

I also found 2 very small darters of some kind in the 29 gallon that I don't think I put in there. They were only about 3/4 inch long. I'll have to wait until the water clears and I purchase a new digital camera for ID. I guess it is possible they bred in the tank and grew up there. I had never seen them until today. The mesh on the nets I use wouldn't allow something that small to hitchhike into a bucket, I don't think.

I also found a small mussel/clam of some kind in there a few months ago that I KNOW I didn't put there intentionally. Don't know what to do with him now except just let him be.

-Thom

PS...Has anyone noticed their fish darkening due to darker substrate?


I have noticed this with various fish I have kept, and I now tend to avoid light colored substrate because of it.
When I bring home natives or tropicals for that matter, I usually quarantine them for a few weeks in a 5 gallon bucket with no substrate. I suppose it could be due to the unnatural surroundings more so than the white bucket, but they are always very pale until I add them to the aquarium.

Hmmm, I think this calls for an experiment, I'll have to get a dark colored bucket and split them between the 2 next time.

Yes. Everything from sunfish to darters to black nose dace turned dark over dark substrate.

PS...Has anyone noticed their fish darkening due to darker substrate?
I have noticed this with various fish I have kept, and I now tend to avoid light colored substrate because of it.
When I bring home natives or tropicals for that matter, I usually quarantine them for a few weeks in a 5 gallon bucket with no substrate. I suppose it could be due to the unnatural surroundings more so than the white bucket, but they are always very pale until I add them to the aquarium.

Hmmm, I think this calls for an experiment, I'll have to get a dark colored bucket and split them between the 2 next time.

It's more likely that they were stuck to your finger when you were putting in another fish and you just didn't notice them. When you get a big bunch of fish in the seine, sometimes you don't see everyone there. I acquired a flame chub this way (seriously! ). It took 6 months of growth before I could figure out what the heck is was.

Todd

On top of this I used about an inch of Black Onyx Sand.

Where did you find this? I've been looking for the new seachem black flourite sand but black onyx sand would be wonderful. Just something black that's not coated.

Where did you find this? I've been looking for the new seachem black flourite sand but black onyx sand would be wonderful. Just something black that's not coated.

It is made by Seachem, paid 21.99 for it at Aquatics and Exotics in Cincinnati. It's not quite black. Rather it is slightly grey, like slate. I've heard talk of using pool sand as an inexpensive alternative. I don't know whether there is a black substuitute for this stuff in pool sand or not. Perhaps someone could chime in?

You can get the black Florite stuff online at Petsmart I think.

-Thom

[quote name='truf' date='Dec 31 2007, 04:13 AM' post='27248']
PS...Has anyone noticed their fish darkening due to darker substrate?
/quote]

To look at it from a different angle, I always keep my bait minnows in a clean white bucket becuase they get so pale and washed out they practically glow. The preditors can spot them a long way off even in murky water.
I have golden shiners in a planted tank with dark substrate and if I compare them to the ones in my bait bucket, they don't even look like the same animal.
So I guess that would be a YES.

Steve,

A 5 gallon bucket would probably be too much for a 30 gallon. You're just trying to seed stuff in. I'd do hand grabs in different areas of the riffles and sand bars to optomize the taxa you potentially catch.

Todd

I added some "live" sand and rocks from my creek mixed in with some river pebbles from Lowe's. I filled about 1/3 of the bucket. There were thousands of corbula and about 100 or so trapdoor snails. I don't know what else is in there, but I guess I'll find out soon enough.

To look at it from a different angle, I always keep my bait minnows in a clean white bucket becuase they get so pale and washed out they practically glow. The preditors can spot them a long way off even in murky water.
I have golden shiners in a planted tank with dark substrate and if I compare them to the ones in my bait bucket, they don't even look like the same animal.
So I guess that would be a YES.

I agree. I had my longear over white gravel for some time, then when I changed the substrate to darker pebbles, he darkened up and he looks a whole lot better than before. My fish seem more secure over a darker substate as well. They don't try to hide as much and are a lot more lively.

A little off the native path:
I have a cichlid tank that I'm about to change the substrate in also. (Have to wait until the hundred or so Jewel Cichlids grow up enough) It currently has about 2" of aragonite sand. This stuff binds up, becomes rock hard with any acidity, and forms a concretion. This does not allow rooting of any plants to speak of. I'd like to keep the PH high without sacrificing the ability of plants to root and grow. When I was a marine tank guy I used aragonite sand to maintain the PH in the range I wanted. Thought it would work with the cichlid tank too, but it causes me unwanted problems. Maybe someone could suggest a similar substrate that would keep the PH up, but won't bind? Oh, and is dark.
-Thom

A little off the native path:
I have a cichlid tank that I'm about to change the substrate in also. (Have to wait until the hundred or so Jewel Cichlids grow up enough) It currently has about 2" of aragonite sand. This stuff binds up, becomes rock hard with any acidity, and forms a concretion. This does not allow rooting of any plants to speak of. I'd like to keep the PH high without sacrificing the ability of plants to root and grow. When I was a marine tank guy I used aragonite sand to maintain the PH in the range I wanted. Thought it would work with the cichlid tank too, but it causes me unwanted problems. Maybe someone could suggest a similar substrate that would keep the PH up, but won't bind? Oh, and is dark.
-Thom

I didn't think jewels required the same high hardness/pH the rift lake Africans did.
I used a similar substrate when I kept rift lake "mbuna". The difference was, the mbuna were constantly sucking up mouthfuls of sand and spitting it out and/or excavating under the decorations. The substrate was always stirred.
There are other coral based substrates that are of a courser grain than the aragonite. I think some may be a little darker. I'm not really sure how plants would grow in it though.
BTW, did you have any problem with algae when you used the aragonite in fresh water?

I didn't think jewels required the same high hardness/pH the rift lake Africans did.
I used a similar substrate when I kept rift lake "mbuna". The difference was, the mbuna were constantly sucking up mouthfuls of sand and spitting it out and/or excavating under the decorations. The substrate was always stirred.
There are other coral based substrates that are of a courser grain than the aragonite. I think some may be a little darker. I'm not really sure how plants would grow in it though.
BTW, did you have any problem with algae when you used the aragonite in fresh water?

The tank didn't start off with Jewels, it just ended up there. Purple Coraline algae grew, which surprised me. It is apparently a function of PH rather than salinity. Once I started injecting CO2 Green Hair algae just went kooky, so I stopped that until I can solve the substrate problems. I'm probably just going to use some Home Depot gravel, or something. I have this in my 75 Gallon, but it is a little too coarse. I've been looking for something a little smaller. I guess I don't need PH controlling substrate after all, especially since I might sell off my breeding pair of Jewels.
-Thom

The tank didn't start off with Jewels, it just ended up there. Purple Coraline algae grew, which surprised me. It is apparently a function of PH rather than salinity. Once I started injecting CO2 Green Hair algae just went kooky, so I stopped that until I can solve the substrate problems. I'm probably just going to use some Home Depot gravel, or something. I have this in my 75 Gallon, but it is a little too coarse. I've been looking for something a little smaller. I guess I don't need PH controlling substrate after all, especially since I might sell off my breeding pair of Jewels.
-Thom

Wait a sec..you have or had coraline algae growing in a freshwater tank?
If so...what was the ph? I'd love to experiment with a 20 long I have, and see if I could do a "false marine" tank with small species of rift lake ciclids!

Wait a sec..you have or had coraline algae growing in a freshwater tank?
If so...what was the ph? I'd love to experiment with a 20 long I have, and see if I could do a "false marine" tank with small species of rift lake ciclids!

It appears to be coralline. Looks very much like the stuff that used to grow in my marine tanks. The PH I'm sure has dropped since I put a bunch of plants in there. I don't remember what the original PH was now, sorry. A PH test at this point would be pointless. (not to be redundant) I'm sure that the PH was quite high though, because of the aragonite substrate. Also, the tank has rock formations made from the calcium rich ancient seabed rocks found in the sides of hills here in southern Ohio.
-Thom

Purple Coraline algae grew, which surprised me. It is apparently a function of PH rather than salinity. -Thom

AHHA! That's what I was expecting!
I have a theory about using calcerous substrate and its relationship to the purple slime curse.
I believe that there is a synergistic relationship between the calcium and phosphorus that fuels the purple slime. It almost seems the calcerous substrate bonds to the phosphorus in a way that makes it particularly appealing to the bluegreen [purple] algae. Your subsequent problem with green hair algae was most likely also related to the availability of phosphorus.
I stumbled on the theory when I noticed that my native saltwater tanks with silica beach sand never got purple slime while my tropical saltwater tanks with calcerous substrate were so badly slimed I was embarassed for people to see it. When I scrapped the calcerous substrate, the slime went away!
I now have two saltwater tanks, both several years running, which recieve heavy feedings of rich meaty food [mussels, crab, shrimp etc], neither of which has shown a single strand of purple slime.
Both have plain old New England beach sand for substrate.