I caught my very first larval pickerel in Wolf River (SW Tennessee) this morning. It's boldly colored in black and red- just like another similarly-sized weed-inhabiting aquatic, larval Siren intermedia; also like Siren, it will become more cryptically colored as an adult.

Are there any other little fishes with this coloration? And does anyone know, or want to guess, why? It's obviously not for breeding, and I can't believe it's aposematic. If it's mimicry, what's the model? It doesn't seem like good camo in a weed bed, but maybe at the right scale it would be....

I was just struck by the similarities and wanted to see if anyone could add to the list. I'm really curious about these unexplained colorations that pop up here and there, like the pale 'collar' that so many unrelated small leaf-litter-dwelling snakes have.

I caught my very first larval pickerel in Wolf River (SW Tennessee) this morning. It's boldly colored in black and red- just like another similarly-sized weed-inhabiting aquatic, larval Siren intermedia; also like Siren, it will become more cryptically colored as an adult.

Are there any other little fishes with this coloration? And does anyone know, or want to guess, why? It's obviously not for breeding, and I can't believe it's aposematic. If it's mimicry, what's the model? It doesn't seem like good camo in a weed bed, but maybe at the right scale it would be....

I was just struck by the similarities and wanted to see if anyone could add to the list. I'm really curious about these unexplained colorations that pop up here and there, like the pale 'collar' that so many unrelated small leaf-litter-dwelling snakes have.

maybe its just that in general red and black things tend to taste bad and many are in fact toxic to some degree? your avitar, the red eft (eastern spotted newt) is not hard to see in the forest by any ssssssssssstretch of the imagination. lady bugs and other beetles, monarchs. lots of examples.

I fed an orange and black beetle to an underwater walking stick once (don't know what it's actually called, but it was hemiptera). I found it dead, having caught, lanced and begun to suck the beetle it had itself turned orange and was stiff as a stick...

maybe its just that in general red and black things tend to taste bad and many are in fact toxic to some degree? your avitar, the red eft (eastern spotted newt) is not hard to see in the forest by any ssssssssssstretch of the imagination. lady bugs and other beetles, monarchs. lots of examples.

I fed an orange and black beetle to an underwater walking stick once (don't know what it's actually called, but it was hemiptera). I found it dead, having caught, lanced and begun to suck the beetle it had itself turned orange and was stiff as a stick...

I was beginning to think no one would respond to this!

The thing is, as far as I can figure out pickerels and sirens are NOT toxic or distasteful in any way. They could conceivably be mimicking something else, but what the model is I couldn't say.

Your underwater walking stick is probably a species of Ranatra, which is in the family Nepidae along with the water scorpions (Nepa). That beetle must have been toxic throughout; nepids and other hemipterans can prey on many toxic amphibians because their mouthparts bypass the toxins in the skin and go directly to the tasty juices inside.

I was beginning to think no one would respond to this!

The thing is, as far as I can figure out pickerels and sirens are NOT toxic or distasteful in any way. They could conceivably be mimicking something else, but what the model is I couldn't say.

Your underwater walking stick is probably a species of Ranatra, which is in the family Nepidae along with the water scorpions (Nepa). That beetle must have been toxic throughout; nepids and other hemipterans can prey on many toxic amphibians because their mouthparts bypass the toxins in the skin and go directly to the tasty juices inside.

I was just saying that the colors themselves are a deterent becasue many orange/red things tend to be distateful or toxic. I think it is more along the lines of a deterent, Batesian mimicry. Who knows though, I've never tasted baby sirens

yeah that stick turned a dull creamy orange from a dark brown originally. I loved that thing, especially when it ate feeder guppies.