It seems to me that a while ago several forum members discussed the use of H P as an algicide, but I don't recall anyone mentioning long term deleterious effects. Is it generally agreed that it is a safe algae killer?
Algae vs. Hydrogen peroxide
Started by
Guest_HooperG_*
, Jan 14 2008 10:10 PM
30 replies to this topic
#2
Guest_viridari_*
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Posted 14 January 2008 - 10:13 PM
There are no long term effects because the H2O2 very quickly breaks down into water and oxygen.
I've been experimenting more aggressively with it on external parasites with great effect. I don't really have an algae plagued tank to try it on, though.
I've been experimenting more aggressively with it on external parasites with great effect. I don't really have an algae plagued tank to try it on, though.
#3
Guest_farmertodd_*
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Posted 14 January 2008 - 11:04 PM
Yes, I'm finding myself dose even before a problem starts, as part of monthly maintenance. I do it the night before a waterchange. It really is a dream come true.
Todd
Todd
#4
Guest_Seedy_*
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Posted 14 January 2008 - 11:10 PM
Yes, I'm finding myself dose even before a problem starts, as part of monthly maintenance. I do it the night before a waterchange. It really is a dream come true.
Todd
May I ask at what concentration and for treatment of what kind(s?) of algae are you finding it useful? Are you spot treating or dosing the whole tank? What all lives in these tanks? I ask because I am dealing with algae issues in one of my planted tanks.
#5
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Posted 14 January 2008 - 11:44 PM
(1 oz) 3% H2O2 (grocery store stuff) per 10 gallons of tank water (I have to account for my deep substrates).
I'm just dumping it in. I have some periphytic (parasitic?) algaes that on the plants, but I don't bother spot treating them. I just rip the leaves out when certain leaves bug me too much. I like some degree of parasitism on my plants. Looks more natural to me.
But for film and cyano... It works like a charm. If you've got a pretty heavy infestation, it'll turn your tank the color of the algae (green or red depending). Dont' worry about it though. The chlorophyll or caratinoids will break down in about a day or so. Then you can do a water change and get all the scuzz out of there.
Todd
I'm just dumping it in. I have some periphytic (parasitic?) algaes that on the plants, but I don't bother spot treating them. I just rip the leaves out when certain leaves bug me too much. I like some degree of parasitism on my plants. Looks more natural to me.
But for film and cyano... It works like a charm. If you've got a pretty heavy infestation, it'll turn your tank the color of the algae (green or red depending). Dont' worry about it though. The chlorophyll or caratinoids will break down in about a day or so. Then you can do a water change and get all the scuzz out of there.
Todd
#6
Guest_bullhead_*
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Posted 15 January 2008 - 08:50 AM
You are talking about blue-green algae here, right? Not "real" algae?
#7
Guest_natureman187_*
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Posted 15 January 2008 - 10:44 AM
It works for both.You are talking about blue-green algae here, right? Not "real" algae?
#8
Guest_truf_*
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Posted 15 January 2008 - 04:25 PM
It has no deleterious effects on your plants?
#9
Guest_mikez_*
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Posted 15 January 2008 - 04:58 PM
Can anybody explain the science to me?
#10
Guest_farmertodd_*
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Posted 15 January 2008 - 05:34 PM
H2O2 is a reactive molecule. It's somewhat unstable, and it wants to be "happy".
In doing so, it's looking for something it can grab hold of, which might be your cells. If the proportion causes the cells to burst when it's grabbing for the "happy" molecules, that death occurs for the cell. If the organism IS the cell, well, it's kinda screwed
Larger organisms aren't affected by this either by this 1) dilution (the amount to organism is below a caustic level 2) hardened cells (epidermal skin cells, chitin, cellulose, etc) or 3) have organs such as a liver that will sacrifice its cells to preserve the rest of the organisms.
Since algal cells, bacteria, and fungal fruiting bodies and mycellia lack 2 & 3, the only thing that can preserve them is their own numbers. That is... They have colonies or masses that are greater than the dilution, and through attrition of the molecule going to Oxygen and Water, outlasts the molecules.
So the higher organisms in your tank, such as fish and plants are fine (like you'll see some tissue damage to plants like elodea, but nothing it doesn't recover from) at this dilution of 1 oz to 10 gallon.
You can always add more and watch your plants fail first (no liver), and then take the level higher and watch the fish fail next (as their liver fails)... Or just appreciate the hypothetical nature of what WOULD happen
Todd
In doing so, it's looking for something it can grab hold of, which might be your cells. If the proportion causes the cells to burst when it's grabbing for the "happy" molecules, that death occurs for the cell. If the organism IS the cell, well, it's kinda screwed
Larger organisms aren't affected by this either by this 1) dilution (the amount to organism is below a caustic level 2) hardened cells (epidermal skin cells, chitin, cellulose, etc) or 3) have organs such as a liver that will sacrifice its cells to preserve the rest of the organisms.
Since algal cells, bacteria, and fungal fruiting bodies and mycellia lack 2 & 3, the only thing that can preserve them is their own numbers. That is... They have colonies or masses that are greater than the dilution, and through attrition of the molecule going to Oxygen and Water, outlasts the molecules.
So the higher organisms in your tank, such as fish and plants are fine (like you'll see some tissue damage to plants like elodea, but nothing it doesn't recover from) at this dilution of 1 oz to 10 gallon.
You can always add more and watch your plants fail first (no liver), and then take the level higher and watch the fish fail next (as their liver fails)... Or just appreciate the hypothetical nature of what WOULD happen
Todd
#11
Guest_Seedy_*
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Posted 15 January 2008 - 05:44 PM
OK...
I just dosed my 20 gallon planted with Gambusia affinis according to your method. The tank has Java Moss, Java Fern, Anubias, a Red Rubin Sword, Moneywort and Red Ludwigia.
I had already eliminated the Cyanobacteria with Erythromycin...but this is a costly method, and I fear developing a resistant strain of Cyanobacteria. There is still some remaining green fuzz (no string or hair) algae that is fairly thick on some leaves.
The fish seemed pretty stressed when I added the H2O2 and I saw no immediate change in water visibility or in the algae itself. I will keep my eye on it and report what changes I see.
I just dosed my 20 gallon planted with Gambusia affinis according to your method. The tank has Java Moss, Java Fern, Anubias, a Red Rubin Sword, Moneywort and Red Ludwigia.
I had already eliminated the Cyanobacteria with Erythromycin...but this is a costly method, and I fear developing a resistant strain of Cyanobacteria. There is still some remaining green fuzz (no string or hair) algae that is fairly thick on some leaves.
The fish seemed pretty stressed when I added the H2O2 and I saw no immediate change in water visibility or in the algae itself. I will keep my eye on it and report what changes I see.
#12
Guest_Seedy_*
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Posted 15 January 2008 - 06:45 PM
Update:
Lots more bubbling than usual, doesn't appear to just be O2 from the plants "pearling". Snails don't like it...There are a number of them floating tits up and the others are trying to come out of the water. Could this also be an effective "snail-icide"?
Lots more bubbling than usual, doesn't appear to just be O2 from the plants "pearling". Snails don't like it...There are a number of them floating tits up and the others are trying to come out of the water. Could this also be an effective "snail-icide"?
#13
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Posted 15 January 2008 - 06:49 PM
Another thought just occurred to me...I like Erythromycin because it does not kill the "good" bacteria that facilitate the Nitrogen Cycle in the aquarium...If Hydrogen Peroxide kills single cell critters fairly indiscriminately, did I just "crash" my bio-filter (ie. kill off my beneficial bacteria)?
#14
Guest_Skipjack_*
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Posted 15 January 2008 - 07:04 PM
Nope, you have not crashed your good bacteria. Many of us have used this technique.
Problems I have seen.
Inverts freak out! Crayfish in particular.
I have also seen it affect Pternotropis negatively.
Problems I have seen.
Inverts freak out! Crayfish in particular.
I have also seen it affect Pternotropis negatively.
#15
Guest_mikez_*
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Posted 15 January 2008 - 07:07 PM
OK, it makes sense to me.
It would seem the good bugs in a traditional biofilter could be affected.
Just so happens in my big planted tank, the plants ARE the biofilter so maybe it would be OK.
I've got hellacious algae problems including green water. LOTS of hair algae.
Still, I haven't addressed all the underlying issues yet. I'm sure the h2o2 isn't a magic bullet.
It would seem the good bugs in a traditional biofilter could be affected.
Just so happens in my big planted tank, the plants ARE the biofilter so maybe it would be OK.
I've got hellacious algae problems including green water. LOTS of hair algae.
Still, I haven't addressed all the underlying issues yet. I'm sure the h2o2 isn't a magic bullet.
#16
Guest_vmahaffe_*
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Posted 15 January 2008 - 07:45 PM
Would H2O2 work on BBA too?
#17
Guest_schambers_*
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Posted 16 January 2008 - 02:29 PM
Would H2O2 work on BBA too?
One of the members of my local fish club has used H2O2 on different types of algae. Here's the thread about it:
Algae problems? Have no fear, H2O2 is here!
Warning, our forum is very conversational and we drift off topic sometimes . . .
#18
Guest_natureman187_*
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Posted 16 January 2008 - 09:23 PM
Yes it does, but bba can tolerate slightly higher amounts so watch how much you put in. I melted a tank full of vals a couple times, and that's not cool.Would H2O2 work on BBA too?
#19
Guest_Nightwing_*
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Posted 16 January 2008 - 09:32 PM
Purely looking at the cyno aspect, if I hope to maintain a good number of happy invertebrates in my tank(in other words..no deaths and no major stress)....is this still a prefered method over etho? I've used etho twice in 9 months(all that's been needed) and both times it took complete care of the problem literally for several months. No need to deal with it any time soon(zero cyno in the tank at the moment), but I figure it eventually recolonizes from outside sources, and if this will NOT kill inverts or higher plants..then it's perhaps a good alternative to etho.
#20
Guest_Seedy_*
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Posted 16 January 2008 - 10:16 PM
Update: Looks like the snails will make it. Much of the fuzz that had attached itself to the "Red Rubin" sword and Anubias plants is now easy to dislodge and is coming out. The Gambusia are just fine...Seems to have been effective, the plants don't seem to have been stressed. I will do a little pruning and planting tonight.
Now...that was with a low pH high, CO2, soft water tank with what could be considered the "cockroach" of the Piscine World.
What happens when the chemistry is different. Like WAY different(Super hard, pH of 9.0+, high O2 ), and the fish are extremely sensitive to changes? I'm speaking specifically of Lake Tanganyika Cichlids... Does Hydrogen Peroxide behave differently at higher pH and when there is a lot of carbonate hardness? My chemistry is really rusty...so please be gentle....
Now...that was with a low pH high, CO2, soft water tank with what could be considered the "cockroach" of the Piscine World.
What happens when the chemistry is different. Like WAY different(Super hard, pH of 9.0+, high O2 ), and the fish are extremely sensitive to changes? I'm speaking specifically of Lake Tanganyika Cichlids... Does Hydrogen Peroxide behave differently at higher pH and when there is a lot of carbonate hardness? My chemistry is really rusty...so please be gentle....
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