eastern or central mudminnow?

http://i92.photobuck...S/FISHIE009.jpg
No, I'm not asking you to id it from this pic!
That is what I had to go on when I responded to a "what kind of fish is this" query on a local icefishing forum. The fish in question, 3 specimins, had been taken through the ice in a minnow trap in south central Massachusetts.
Although numerous people chimed in with "chub", the regional bait name for mummiechugs, it just didn't look right to me. I admit it did look an awful lot like a blurry mummie. Making it more difficult, the only record for Ma, according to Inland Fishes of Massachsetts, is for the Connecticut river area, and those are for central mudminnows.
Anyway, I PMed the guy trying to get more info and he informed me they were still alive in his bait pail and I was welcome to them if I was willing to drive down and pick them up.
So on the strength of that blurry photo and a hunch, I made the two hour round trip to visit the guy while he was fishing in a giant fishing derby [he had the second place pike @16lbs]. I got to see an insane number of needlessly dead fish hanging on a big board.
I also got two healthy mudminnows taken in central Ma where they have not been found before. If they're easterns, they'll be a new record for the state. If centrals, a record for that part of the state.
Here's a couple of pics. If these aren't enough to go on, what view is needed to make the ID?

No, I'm not asking you to id it from this pic!

hey Mike,

Looks like a central. Photo helps more than you think. Pattern is the best character, meristics overlap almost completely; though easterns have shorter snouts and smaller eyes than do centrals. You might want to offer specimens to Karsten Hartel at the MCZ, or suggest that it might be worth a trip back to get more...

cheers,
Dave

Thanks Dave.
I do intend to email Karsten Hartel a photo and account of how I obtained them. I'm a little reluctant to submit a specimen until I get a chance to check out the location myself. After all, I don't know the individual I obtained them from and would hate to enter a bogus specimen.
That plus I'd hate to pickle my new fish - they're pretty cool!

I know that Karsten will be interested in your information. And I think that it is great that you took the time to do this. Otherwise this would have been lost. The first North Carolina record of the golden topminnow was taken by two hobbyists on a Raleigh Aquarium Society field trip several years ago. I suspected they might be in the state and asked them to be on the lookout and BAM!

ps: I think that they are centrals also.

First Records of Umbra limi (Central Mudminnow) in Maine
Emily G. Schilling, David B. Halliwell, Amy M. Gullo, and Judy K. Markowsky


We note the first records of non-native Umbra limi (Umbridae; central mudminnow) in Maine. Unrecognized fish were captured in minnow traps set in Caribou Bog, in the town of Orono, during the summer of 1999. Preliminary identification by gross anatomy, coloration, and markings indicated that the fish were central mudminnow. We later confirmed this field identification using standard measurements and counts; specimens were vouchered (CU82322). Streams within Caribou Bog were resampled for central mudminnow during the summers of 2000 and 2002. Several size classes were captured, indicating the presence of viable populations. A single central mudminnow was also collected from the St. John River in northern Maine during the summer of 2005. Further sampling is warranted to determine the actual extent of central mudminnow distribution in Maine.


Wouldn't be the first time a centrals were found on the east coast. Chalk up another one up...

I hope this isn't a derail but I'm curious about the use of mudminnows as bait. I've read here and there they are popular as sport bait in parts of North America. I've never actually heard firsthand of them being sold as bait. I certainly have no doubts about their hardiness in the bait bucket and I guess I'm try to find out where they are "popular" as bait.

It's pretty sad to see the discovery of two possible bait bucket introductions in a couple of days here.

Well they are certainly not normally used as bait here. Almost none of the fishermen who responded recognized it as a mudminnow, although the pic was pretty blurry.
They are certainly hardy enough to be used as bait.

Sad to say, dumping the bait bucket is a universal practice. I hate to say it, but new regs that impose time limits on how long bait can be kept only encourages bait bucket dumping because many fishermen will be reluctant to just kill left over live bait and throw it in the trash.

I hope this isn't a derail but I'm curious about the use of mudminnows as bait. I've read here and there they are popular as sport bait in parts of North America. I've never actually heard firsthand of them being sold as bait. I certainly have no doubts about their hardiness in the bait bucket and I guess I'm try to find out where they are "popular" as bait.

It's pretty sad to see the discovery of two possible bait bucket introductions in a couple of days here.

Around here, the term mudminnow used by fishermen to describe mummichog. They are widely available along the coast and male excellent flounder bait apparently.

Around here, the term mudminnow used by fishermen to describe mummichog. They are widely available along the coast and male excellent flounder bait apparently.

Do you suspect when I read that "mudminnows" are used as bait, they were actually talking about mummichog? If so, just another example of how useless common names are.

Do you suspect when I read that "mudminnows" are used as bait, they were actually talking about mummichog? If so, just another example of how useless common names are.

I can't speak for other regions, but my local experience is that mummies are refered to as "chubs" when sold as bait. I've never heard the term "mudminnow" used.
However, having said that, here is one of the responses to the query on the icefishing forum, this from a fisherman in Maine;

"mummichug, tommy cod, killy, kelly all of the above and probably a few other names depending on where you are from."

Mummichug and killy I can see. Kelly is a new one for me and tommy cod is a whole 'nuther animal altogether.

BTW, I did get confirmation from Karsten Hartel that the fish in question are new records for region and drainage. I'm planning to get more specimens so we can enter a voucher. If not, I'll sacrifice one of mine.

Central mudminnow. I might be generalizing, but the easy way for me to tell them apart is centrals have bands, the easterns are striped. Normally centrals always show banding. I have seen easterns that were kind of mottled or just one color with non descript markings.

U limi, the central mudminnow, is a common bait fish in this area, especially in spring when they are easy to catch in huge quantities in flooding ditches. They live for ever, breathing air, so they can be kept in tubs at bait stores with little or no air bubbles or current from a sprayer. As long as there is enough room for them to wiggle to the surface and breath air.

Makes a great aquarium fish but getting them on prepared foods sometimes is hard. Once they figure out prepared food is edible, they will gorge on it and you no longer have to worry they are not getting enough to eat with sharing the tank with fast shiners or sunfish.