new 40 gal. aquarium compatability question

I am fairly new to this hobby and am very enthusiastic about it. I really like sunfish and catfish. My question is, I am getting a 40 gal. hex aquarium that I want small sunfish Lepomis type and Tadpole Madtoms in. I really like the Orange spotted sunfish. How many should I keep without crowding them too much and what other small sunfish would do well with the Orange spotted and Madtoms? Ex. Flier (not lepomis but I like them too), Blue spotted, Dollar, Bantam, and any others that I don't know about yet. Also is there a native type of algae eater that wont get eaten by the above listed fish? My catfish and Green sunfish are eating all my pond snails.

machineman,just wondering what type of catfish you have.You don't have It down on your fish list.

I should have said catfish that I had. It was a channel cat. He just got too big for my tank.

Thank's machineman.

I am fairly new to this hobby and am very enthusiastic about it. I really like sunfish and catfish. My question is, I am getting a 40 gal. hex aquarium that I want small sunfish Lepomis type and Tadpole Madtoms in. I really like the Orange spotted sunfish. How many should I keep without crowding them too much and what other small sunfish would do well with the Orange spotted and Madtoms? Ex. Flier (not lepomis but I like them too), Blue spotted, Dollar, Bantam, and any others that I don't know about yet. Also is there a native type of algae eater that wont get eaten by the above listed fish? My catfish and Green sunfish are eating all my pond snails.

Well the limiting factor is the 40 gal hex. A rectangular tank has a much bigger footprint (more space across the bottom) which provides a wider habitat territory for these somewhat territorial sunfishes to divide up. In a hex tank, they are forced to be near each other or in the uncomfortable position of rising in the water column. This is a vulnerable position for fishes, and not really to their liking. So in a 40 hex, I'd limit the number of smallish sunfishes, like the Orangespotted, to about 4 to 5. Beyond that, it depends on what kind of behavior you'd like to observe. If you want to see breeding behavior, best limit it to the one species (due to the small tank size) and provide lots of hiding places, ie plants, to help with aggression issues. If you want more of a community, with sunfishes, its best to only have one or two of each species, and mix as many species as you can, again, up to about 4 or 5 fishes, in this size tank. So other species that _may_ co-habitate with the Orangespotted would be bantam, E obesus (banded), maybe large bluespotted. These are really the only ones that are likely to be compatible over the long run. The other sunfishes are either significantly larger or much smaller, or in the case of E chaetodon (blackbanded), too passive to defend themselves. As for other families, you have lots of choices. The smaller madtoms would be good, ie tadpole, speckled, freckled, brindled, elegant, etc. Flagfish are excellent algae eaters, and probably mean enough to survive. Stonerollers also. They get to about 6 inches long. Larger darters could work. You will still have the problem of a small footprint that will limit the number of fishes. Golden killifish could work if they are bigger than the sunfishes when you get them. Again, lots of plants, rocks, wood will help with aggression.

Sorry, by Golden killifish, I meant, Fundulus chrysotus, golden topminnow.

Here's some generalized guidance on fish compatibility. The specifics of your setup will may contradict some of these recommendatioms. A solid rule is "the bigger the tank, the better your chance of success":

In general, you can keep the larger sunfishes together along with the larger madtoms and darters. The smaller sunfishes can be kept with the smaller darters, minnows, killifish and madtoms. Some of the tiniest fish, like the Ellasoma sunfishes, should only be kept with very small fish like the least killifish, swamp darter, sawcheek darter and bluefin killifish. Here are examples of species groupings that could live together:

Tiny Fish Tank:
Elassoma zonatum, banded pygmy sunfish
Elassoma evergladei, Everglades pygmy sunfish
Elassoma okeefenokee, okeefenokee pygmy sunfish
Etheostoma serrifer, sawcheek darter
Etheostoma fusiforme, swamp darter
Pteronotropis stonei, lowland shiner
Lucania goodei, bluefin killifish
Heterandria formosa, least killifish, pygmy livebearer
Lucania parva, rainwater killifish
Cambarellus shufeldtii, dwarf crayfish

Large Sunfish Tank:
Acantharchus pomotis, mud sunfish
Lepomis auritus, redbreast sunfish
Lepomis cyanellus, green sunfish
Lepomis gibbosus, pumpkinseed
Lepomis gulosus, warmouth
Lepomis macrochirus, bluegill
Lepomis marginatus, dollar sunfish
Lepomis megalotis, longear sunfish
Lepomis megalotis peltastes, northern longear sunfish
Lepomis microlophus, redear sunfish
Percina crassa, piedmont darter
Percina nigrofasciata, blackbanded darter
Percina caprodes, Logperch
Perca flavescens, yellow perch
Noturus insignis, margined madtom
Noturus flavus, stonecat
Fundulus catenatus, northern studfish

Peaceful Community Tank:
Enneacanthus chaetodon, blackbanded sunfish
Enneacanthus gloriosus, bluespotted sunfish
Enneacanthus obesus, banded sunfish
Lepomis symmetricus, bantam sunfish
Bluespotted sunfish
Noturus leptacanthus, speckled madtom
Noturus gyrinus, tadpole madtom
Umbra pygmaea, eastern mudminnow
Umbra limi, central mudminnow
Poecilia latipinna, sailfin molly
Etheostoma caeruleum, rainbow darter
Etheostoma blennoides, greenside darter
Etheostoma flabellare, fantail darter
Etheostoma fricksium, Savannah darter
Etheostoma fusiforme, swamp darter
Etheostoma inscriptum, turquoise darter
Etheostoma olmstedi, tessellated darter
Etheostoma serrifer, sawcheek darter
Etheostoma thalassinum, seagreen darter
Etheostoma zonale, banded darter
Minytrema melanops, spotted sucker
Scartomyzon cf. lachneri, brassy jumprock
Campostoma anomalum, central stoneroller
Clinostomus funduloides, rosyside dace
Cyprinella chloristia, greenfin shiner
Cyprinella leedsi, bannerfin shiner
Cyprinella nivea, whitefin shiner
Cyprinella pyrrhomelas, fieryblack shiner
Hybopsis hypsinotus, highback chub
Hybopsis rubrifrons, rosyface chub
Notropis altipinnis, highfin shiner
Notropis buccatus, Silverjaw Minnow
Notropis chalybaeus, ironcolor shiner
Notropis cummingsae, dusky shiner
Notropis hudsonius, spottail shiner
Notropis lutipinnis, yellowfin shiner
Notropis maculatus, taillight shiner
Notropis petersoni, coastal shiner
Notropis procne, swallowtail shiner
Notropis scepticus, sandbar shiner
Phoxinus erythrogaster, southern redbelly dace
Pteronotropis hypselopterus, sailfin shiner
Pteronotropis stonei, lowland shiner
Rhinichthys atratulus, eastern blacknose dace
Fundulus chrysotus, golden topminnow
Fundulus catenatus, northern studfish
Fundulus diaphanus, banded killifish
Fundulus lineolatus, lined topminnow
Fundulus notatus, blackstripe topminnow
Lucania goodei, bluefin killifish
Lucania parva, rainwater killifish
northern studfish, Fundulus catenatus
Poecilia latipinna, sailfin molly
Jordanella floridae, flagfish
Cambarellus shufeldtii, dwarf crayfish

Coastal Killifish Tank:
Fundulus heteroclitus, mummichog
Fundulus zebrinus, southern plains killifish
Fundulus confluentus, marsh killifish
Fundulus diaphanus, banded killifish
Fundulus majalis, striped killifish
Fundulus heteroclitus, mummichog
Cyprinodon variegatus, sheepshead minnow
Poecilia latipinna, sailfin molly

Species Tanks, keep these alone or with their own kind, or chose tankmates very carefully:
Esox americanus, grass or redfin pickerel
Amia calva, bowfin
Lepisosteus osseus, longnose gar
Ameiurus brunneus, snail bullhead
Ameiurus natalis, yellow bullhead
Ameiurus nebulosus, brown bullhead
Ameiurus platycephalus, flat bullhead
Ictalurus punctatus, channel catfish
Micropterus dolomieu, smallmouth bass
Micropterus salmoides, largemouth bass
Sander vitreus, walleye
Culaea inconstans, brook stickleback
Gambusia holbrooki, eastern mosquitofish
Aphredoderus sayanus, pirate perch
Cottus bairdi, mottled sculpin

Great info thanks.
Looks like I will probably have 2-3 O. spots may be a bantam and a tadpole madtom for the bottom. I was also thinking of a crayfish and Itsme says that flagfish eat algae so may be one of those too. What do you think. This is probably the only tank that I will be able to have inside for a while. I have 3 55 gal. drums that catch rain water outside. I have common gold fish in one of them now but I was thinking of putting some sunfish or catfish in them instead. I figure A bullhead would take care of the gold fish for me.
Do you think any sunfish breed in a 55 gal. drum if I put in some plants and gravel on the bottom?

Great info thanks.
Looks like I will probably have 2-3 O. spots may be a bantam and a tadpole madtom for the bottom. I was also thinking of a crayfish and Itsme says that flagfish eat algae so may be one of those too. What do you think. This is probably the only tank that I will be able to have inside for a while. I have 3 55 gal. drums that catch rain water outside. I have common gold fish in one of them now but I was thinking of putting some sunfish or catfish in them instead. I figure A bullhead would take care of the gold fish for me.
Do you think any sunfish breed in a 55 gal. drum if I put in some plants and gravel on the bottom?

Most crayfishes will eat plants, so that may be an issue. The Cambarellus shufeldtii, dwarf crayfish, don't seem to be too bad on plants, but they will be eaten by the sunfish, so that would be pointless. You could try one of those large algae eating shrimps, but they are not native to the USA. The large, Macrobrachium shrimps will also eat plants. The smaller non-plant eating shrimps will be fish food.

You can definitely breed sunfishes in 55 gallon drums. You will need to remove the adults after spawning or provide lots of plants for the fry to hide in. They do not provide long term brood care as do the cichlids. The female sunfish is driven from the nest immediately after spawning and will be a predator on the fry as soon as they are hatched. The male will likely wait until they are swimming up before he starts eating them. If you do orangespotted sunfish, you will need green water and/or infusoria for the fry. You may get this for free if your drum gets enough sunlight. My outdoor tanks seem to be pea-green most of the time. Makes it hard to see the fish!