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New Member , but long on experience


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#1 Guest_netmaker_*

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Posted 03 February 2008 - 11:14 PM

Greetings from the Bayous,

I have been looking for a site such as this for years. Although I am NOT a biologist, I have designed, fabricated, deployed and repaired just about every type of fishing gear known to the inland or marine fishery community.

I am looking for information, information that I often would like to have available in my day to day work. The ins and outs of research and sampling protocol....... the reasons this fish breeds here but won't breed there...... why do some folks fear the asian carp and others think its not a problem.....
is a pelican really the most "toxic" bird as far as dropping parasites in fish ponds?........

There are a lot of questions I am curious about and I am hopeful this forum will answer these and a host of others for me along the way.

So as not to be just a lurker or a parasite myself, I'd like to join the fray in the areas where my expertise lies; research and sampling gear This means; trawls, traps, fish pens, dip nets, cast nets, drift nets, kick nets, netting, line and seines of all types and sizes, bird deterrent net systems ......etc. etc.

No, I am NOT looking to drum up new business . That is why there is no website , no URL or anything else listed in my personal section. I have all the work i can handle and I have already seen at least two names on this site that we have done work for in the past year.

What I'd like is just to have a place i can ask questions and have biologists and professional researchers answer in a common and simple language. I'd like to hear what the average "back yard" fish collector has to say about pollution or wetlands mitigation. In return, you folks can pick my brain for the 30 odd years of net design and fabrication I've experienced both in the USA and overseas.

Its late and I see no one is here tonight, but when you all do show up, drop me a line. I don't keep this computer in the shop but rather in the house. I check it about 5 times a week at odd hours.

Thank you all in advance and i hope we can share some really good conversation.


Merci beaucoup mon amis........bon peshe'

netmaker

#2 Guest_Irate Mormon_*

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Posted 04 February 2008 - 10:52 PM

Netmaker,

I had some correspondence with a netmaker in La. many years ago, who offered a type of netting called "moji". Are you familiar with this material? (or maybe the same person??).

#3 Guest_Irate Mormon_*

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Posted 08 February 2008 - 07:09 PM

Greg, I've been kicking an idea around for a while and would like your thoughts on it. Since I had to ditch both of my seines on the Ill-fated Tuxachanie Trek, I have an excuse to buy a new one. I want a 25 footer with a bag, and I want to leave the seine white and dye the bag black or brown. My thinking is that the fish will think the bag is a way out. What do you think?

#4 Guest_keepnatives_*

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Posted 08 February 2008 - 09:21 PM

Greg, I've been kicking an idea around for a while and would like your thoughts on it. Since I had to ditch both of my seines on the Ill-fated Tuxachanie Trek, I have an excuse to buy a new one. I want a 25 footer with a bag, and I want to leave the seine white and dye the bag black or brown. My thinking is that the fish will think the bag is a way out. What do you think?

That seems like a great idea. Combine that with some well placed explosives and I think you've got a winner. But I think some states restrict using nets with bags. Sounds goofy but I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere.

#5 Guest_tglassburner_*

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Posted 08 February 2008 - 10:19 PM

That seems like a great idea. Combine that with some well placed explosives and I think you've got a winner. But I think some states restrict using nets with bags. Sounds goofy but I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere.

MS doesn't outlaw anything just ask Governor Irate!

#6 Guest_netmaker_*

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Posted 09 February 2008 - 03:49 AM

Well........

You have several options.

The Drag Seine that is made with raschel has Top and Bottom lines of equal length.
YOU have to make sure it does not ride up and lose bottom contact.

A proper Drag Seine actually has the Bottom slightly shorter so it cups itself and digs in like a blade on a bulldozer.


The Pocket Seine has more netting in the center and it forms a "pocket" of sorts also referred to as "hammock". It is ideal for picking up smaller fish or even larger ones as we have made them for salmon, flounder and menhaden as well as for taking YO YO's (Young of of the Year).

Then you have the Funnel type seine that has a definite funnel shaped or square shaped bag either dead center or at one end like the 1,500' catfish harvest seines have. Funnel is much better for smaller nets as they keep more fish.

I wouldn't just dye the net, I'd actually net coat with Texasphaltic black, Plasti-net green or
one of the many aquaculture cage net coatings (black) with the slight copper base.

This stiffens the netting to resist tearing and tangling on detritus.

One exception:
If you are VERY concerned about roughing up the specimens, Don't Coat......use a Clothing dye and be sure you mix it with salt so it sets firm .



FYI

Nylon is 1.14 sg
Polyester is 1.35 sg

Both come in raschel knotless in a variety of weights and mesh sizes. I am guessing you all are NOT using these things every day so you can look at the lighter material or medium weight.

The heavier weights, like you would see in the Columbia FRO USFWS Push nets or the Herzog Armadillo trawls are for serious abuse........real serious abuse......probably overkill for most applications in sampling native fishes.

The Polyester will hold bottom better and keep more tensile strength when wet.


Water clarity and net avoidance go hand in hand. Dying the netting is a good idea, but remember, you should be moving with the current to collect swimming fishes so they hit the seine head on.
Otherwise you touch them on their anals and SSWWWWWISH........OFF THEY GO the other direction.

If you stir up too much detritus you will spook your quarry long before you get there........
but you guys have been sampling these critters long enough to know your business.


* you should check about the Bag regulations and what do they define as a bag........the Pocket seines do not have a definitive bag per se, just an additional volume of well placed tapered netting that forms a "pocket" when filled with fish.

Once again, I ain't no genius.............take this as just my offhand opinion.......

nm

#7 Guest_Irate Mormon_*

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Posted 09 February 2008 - 06:29 PM

All right you Weissenheimers. I already checked and the regs say nothing about a bag, they just limit the seine to 25' x 4' (for a sportsman's license).
.
However, your point is well taken since my idea of introducing a ominous cloud of chemicals into the water in order to persuade fishes to flee in the general direction of my net, falls under the category of "muddying", which is prohibited for some strange reason. I'm gonna have to get that law stricken from the books - a lot of guys in the legislature owe me favors. They'll do it if they know what's good for them. Now, that pesky law against using dynamite has been a thorn in my side for years. It's too expensive for something that keeps getting confiscated. The law actually states that you can't use explosives. So I'm working on an implosive. Kind of like a giant balloon that you pop under water, and it sucks all the fish to that spot. Kind of like that, but I can't explain it without using a lot of math :sleep:

#8 Guest_daveneely_*

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Posted 09 February 2008 - 07:08 PM

nm, those are some awful good points. I've used a Plasti-net green-dipped 30x6' bag seine, and the extra weight required a lot of extra hands to lug around and properly wield compared to an uncoated seine. Also, like you mentioned, delicate fishes tend to get really roughed up in dipped nets. I'd rather buy a new net a little more frequently than have to ID a bunch of little nondescript shiners that no longer have any scales...

Irate, a 4' deep seine that long is going to fold over so that the lead line will come off the bottom or the floats will be under the surface in anything more than ~2' of water. I wouldn't even bother with a bag if you're going to get a net that shallow.

cheers,
Dave

#9 Guest_Irate Mormon_*

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Posted 09 February 2008 - 07:48 PM

I've been using one of the same dimensions for years without a bag. I had to ditch it on the ill-fated Tuxachanie Trek. I would love one a little deeper, but the fact is, it's real WORK pulling one of those things.

#10 Guest_netmaker_*

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Posted 09 February 2008 - 11:49 PM

IF and only IF some American mill can duplicate the vinylon tm product that made the Nitto Seimo Moji Net so effective......all of these discussions would be a mute point. That square mesh super strong material cut through water and mud like a butter knife. A fully grown man standing on it could not tear it with both hands....... the 4mill 1mmx1mm withstood two grown men playing tug of war after I cut a 6" slit with a scissors......
It was a tad thicker than screen mesh on your windows.

But alas, American manufacturers are always looking for the "wally world" approach and we are stuck with these heavy raschel nettings..........

RUT (Rule of Thumb )

A seine should be 1/3 deeper than the water you want to use it in.
Should you want to use a 4' deep seine in say 3 or 4 ' of water, you should have the floats removed and use a 5/8" dia. RiverLine float rope. It illiminates the drag of the oval PP or foam floats that come with these small, factory nets. * A float, once submerged, generates drag by its very shape, when the water hits it. this increases the lift ratio to weight factor..........the bottom line comes up!
* You will still have to add some weight if your going to sink the floatline.......

** There is also the Dual Mesh mud Line that makes a snow shoe effect on the bottom . It is about 4" thick and looks like a big long sausage tied to the leadline. It really hugs the mud but it does not tear up the bottom like leads or chain do.
I worked on a Big Ol' seine with this type Dual mesh mud line for the Ms guys in Starkville or Stoneville (T.C. Warm Water Center)....I forget ...... it worked well in older ponds with heavy silt.

The Wisconsin FRO used one on a sampling net last year in the Lake.


just an opinion.......

nm

#11 Guest_Irate Mormon_*

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Posted 10 February 2008 - 08:54 PM

So, what exactly was the problem with MOJI? They can't export it - why?

#12 Guest_netmaker_*

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Posted 11 February 2008 - 10:00 AM

Not sure. The company had a series of internal 'adjustments" and the guys I dealt with retired or were moved.
They just did not want to export.

I was approached by another source but they wanted really big orders and that just isn't going to happen.
Americans are NOT going to pay the cost........no matter how strong the stuff is.

nm

#13 Guest_choc44_*

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Posted 23 May 2009 - 06:26 PM

Does anyone know if I need to dilute the Texasphaltic asphalt based net dip, what to dilute it with, and how much to dilute it. I am new to this. Thanks!

#14 Guest_netmaker_*

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Posted 23 May 2009 - 08:33 PM

Does anyone know if I need to dilute the Texasphaltic asphalt based net dip, what to dilute it with, and how much to dilute it. I am new to this. Thanks!



For netting with mesh opening larger than 20mm str., leave it alone.

For any raschel netting with mesh opening 4mm through 15mm cut it 3 parts thinner/ 1 part net coat.

Too thick and it will make "window panes" inside the mesh openings and block your water flow.

This is just my opinion.There may be other thoughts on the matter.

nm



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