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Asian Carp 2008

Started by Guest_netmaker_* , Feb 04 2008 09:52 AM

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18 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_netmaker_*

Guests

Posted 04 February 2008 - 09:52 AM

Question to readership:

1. How far up the Mississippi River water shed and how far west or east of the Big river have you all seen these fish en masse?

By en masse I'll say thick enough for them to shreken all around the boat when you run through them as opposed to just seeing a single one or two here and one or two there.

2. Does anyone here have any first hand knowledge as to whether the electric barriers placed up in Illinois, (?) have held back the carp or have the fish been able to swim through the field? Has anyone seen any work on electric fish barriers anywhere else in the Midwest , South or East to keep out the carp?

netmaker

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#2 Guest_smbass_*

Guests

Posted 04 February 2008 - 02:46 PM

We ran into a crew that I believe was US fish and wildlife who were sampling the Chicago Shipping canal where the bariers are on the same day we (Midwest Biodiversity Institute) were sampling the area. They had not found any that day and I did ask if they had seen any beyond the barrier and they said no. They did say that they had been found as close as just below the closest lock and dam to the barrier. We were just downstream of the barrier and upstream of the lock and did not find any in our sampling either. We also did one sample well upstream toward the lake of the barrier and did not find any there either.

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#3 Guest_jdclarksc_*

Guests

Posted 04 February 2008 - 03:00 PM

They have not made it above the barrier. Every year I go out with USFW for a week of sampling of invasives. We look for round gobies and both species of carp (silver and bighead). As of last June no carp were above the barrier, but their numbers are increasig below it. We will go out again in June.

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#4 Guest_smbass_*

Guests

Posted 04 February 2008 - 03:19 PM

I probably should have mentioned that we did find Round Goby well below the barrier but they may have come through before it was up and running.

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#5 Guest_netmaker_*

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 08:25 PM

We ran into a crew that I believe was US fish and wildlife who were sampling the Chicago Shipping canal where the bariers are on the same day we (Midwest Biodiversity Institute) were sampling the area. They had not found any that day and I did ask if they had seen any beyond the barrier and they said no. They did say that they had been found as close as just below the closest lock and dam to the barrier. We were just downstream of the barrier and upstream of the lock and did not find any in our sampling either. We also did one sample well upstream toward the lake of the barrier and did not find any there either.

That's a positive thing so far.

I've been talking with some electro shocking folks about some combinations of netting and electrodes ............I was curious as to whether their current grid was actually holding the asian carp species back.

You wouldn't know if there is any difference in sensitivity between the two types Silver and Big head when it comes to electric current.

.........by the way....You all (MBI) weren't using that Armadillo Trawl / Missouri trawl for your sampling were you?

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#6 Guest_netmaker_*

Guests

Posted 06 February 2008 - 08:37 PM

They have not made it above the barrier. Every year I go out with USFW for a week of sampling of invasives. We look for round gobies and both species of carp (silver and bighead). As of last June no carp were above the barrier, but their numbers are increasig below it. We will go out again in June.

I spent three days last year with the USFWS, MDR and Illinois Natural History Survey(?) group chasing those Asians with big ol' twin trawl. It was the first time I experienced the Asians in the wild.
They reacted more like Bluefin tuna being chased down by a pack of Tigers then any carp I've caught.

Their escape mode is more intense then anything else I've chased and I've chased fish around the time zones.......

Anyway, we're do back up this summer with Plan B...... a modified purse seine........

We had launched at Ponca and went North...beautiful river and even prettier scenery...real nice folks in the Research field up there, real nice.

I've since wised up and studied my quarry . Dr. Chapman has filled me in on a lot about those critters.

USFWS just wanted to see if we could come up with a method to catch them en masse besides the trammel nets.

If you have any public info on the carp, I'd like to read it......j

thank you,
netmaker

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#7 Guest_NateTessler13_*

Guests

Posted 07 February 2008 - 10:26 AM

You all (MBI) weren't using that Armadillo Trawl / Missouri trawl for your sampling were you?

Nope, we weren't using trawl nets at all. In the Trip Reports section there is a trip report about my time with the MBI. There are some pictures of our set-up in that thread.

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#8 Guest_smbass_*

Guests

Posted 07 February 2008 - 01:18 PM

Thats not entirely true Nate. We did not use trawl nets in Illinois but we were using them in southern Ohio in large rivers. Fortunately the carp have not showed up there yet though, so nothing to report as far as catching carp in the trawl.

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#9 Guest_netmaker_*

Guests

Posted 07 February 2008 - 01:34 PM

The gear I was referring to was the Armadillo Trawl (aka the Missouri trawl). A dual mesh net. It wouldn't catch much of anything that could swim 2 knots or better.

I know Midwest Bio has at least one of these left. It is a curiosity amongst sampling gear.......sort of like the Bumble Bee .....it isn't supposed to work but it does!

nm

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#10 Guest_smbass_*

Guests

Posted 07 February 2008 - 01:43 PM

Yes that is exactly what it is. Quite an interesting way of sampling. We turned up some fish outside their known ranges in the state with that thing this past october.

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#11 Guest_netmaker_*

Guests

Posted 07 February 2008 - 02:04 PM

Yes that is exactly what it is. Quite an interesting way of sampling. We turned up some fish outside their known ranges in the state with that thing this past october.

Good to hear that.....they are becoming quite the topic of research papers.

so.....tell Chris to order another one....... :laugh:

nm

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#12 Guest_smbass_*

Guests

Posted 07 February 2008 - 03:36 PM

Nate and I were just summer help, I don't think there are any full time MBI employees on here. I do think they liked it and I hope they will use it some more in the future I think it is a prety effective way of sampling large rivers and finding small fishes that have been over looked.

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#13 Guest_netmaker_*

Guests

Posted 07 February 2008 - 08:00 PM

Nate and I were just summer help, I don't think there are any full time MBI employees on here. I do think they liked it and I hope they will use it some more in the future I think it is a prety effective way of sampling large rivers and finding small fishes that have been over looked.

I spoke with some guys from Ohio today. They said they had good success with the Ugly Duckling too.

But I did hear from a guy , who heard from a guy (you know the routine) that said some folks from Pa. didn't do so well. They said fish showed net avoidance when they sent a diver down to see what was happening.........

Probably has to do with water clarity. That big ol' outer raschel net cover looks like a bull manatee coming at you.... I'm guessing the little benthic critters were smart enough to skee daddle........seems the better success is in more turbid water or deeper.

nm

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#14 Guest_smbass_*

Guests

Posted 08 February 2008 - 12:14 PM

I would say that is a fair assessment, deep and muddy rivers are where this is most likely a good method of sampling.

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#15 Guest_farmertodd_*

Guests

Posted 08 February 2008 - 12:53 PM

I'm hoping to get Bob and Gang up here this summer to use a modification of these nets to sample Unionid mussels in the Western Basin. We might have an order for you then NM

Todd

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#16 Guest_ashtonmj_*

Guests

Posted 08 February 2008 - 01:01 PM

Stuart Welsh at UWV and Tom Jones at Marshall are using trawls in there area of the Ohio drainage (Ohio, Kanwah, New) and finding darters species you'd never think would be there...I think Tom also found an epioblasmid mussel that hadn't been seen in the Ohio River in 100+ years....He is brining the get up our way this year to try it out in a few other places...

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#17 Guest_netmaker_*

Guests

Posted 08 February 2008 - 01:30 PM

Stuart Welsh at UWV and Tom Jones at Marshall are using trawls in there area of the Ohio drainage (Ohio, Kanwah, New) and finding darters species you'd never think would be there...I think Tom also found an epioblasmid mussel that hadn't been seen in the Ohio River in 100+ years....He is brining the get up our way this year to try it out in a few other places...

Tell Tom hello for me and I am glad he's catching lots of critters.

Once most of the research guys learn to get away from the "Wally World" type net shops and spend just a little more money.....they get all kinds of good results. There is a huge difference in a shop that has 1,100 net designs to pull from and a company that subs out to some retired shrimper that has only 10 designs and they're all from 1970.

I don't think Tom has the SKT Skate 16 model ( what the USFWS guys involved in the Pallid project use) , just the Model 8 Armadillo Trawl.

FYI
Should you all want to take that net into deeper water 10 M plus ....or swifter current 1.00 knots > 2.25 knots, it'll need to be outfitted with the 24x12 or the 30x15 otter boards..... 5x1 ratio on towlines is still recommended.

As soon as these broken ribs heal up just a little more i'll have to spend more time working in the shop than on the computer....

take care,
nm

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#18 Guest_smbass_*

Guests

Posted 08 February 2008 - 01:34 PM

Todd, I think this should be done on the Lower Maumee in Toledo and out into the Bay. We got a couple of channel darters at the mouth at the Bayshore Powerplant intake screans back when I was at BG. I have a feeling if there is any decent population at all left up in that area that this would be the way to look for them. Who knows you may turn up some river darters as well. One of the things we got in Southern Ohio was a channel darter just down stream of Chillicothe, there are 0 records for them in the Scioto except right down at the Mouth, I think Chilicothe is about RM 75 or so.

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#19 Guest_ashtonmj_*

Guests

Posted 08 February 2008 - 02:27 PM

I'll see Tom at the end of the month actually. We're really excited about the trawling this year and hopefully next.

Brian and Todd,

I've heard similar things about channels, rivers, tippi's, variatum members, and percina spp. from Tom about his trawling in the Ohio and in WV tribs...It's kinda sad about what we don't know as far as big river distribution of smaller fish.