Does anyone here keep stream insects or other invertebrates? I've thought it would be really cool to set up a stream tank with darters and some bugs. Of course the problem is what happens when they metamorphosize (is that a word?) into adults? If anyone has had success doing a stream tank, let me know how you did it, my goal is to try to set one up this summer.
Stream Inverts?
Started by
Guest_SeaweedGuy_*
, Feb 29 2008 03:40 PM
32 replies to this topic
#2
Guest_sumthinsfishy_*
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Posted 29 February 2008 - 05:57 PM
I think the only water bugs that will be big enough not to get destroyed by the darters would eat the darters. Maybe some small crayfish.
#3
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Posted 29 February 2008 - 06:00 PM
You could try damselfly larvae, which will eat smaller things, like copepods and bloodworms if they're floating. You could also try mayfly larvae. I don't think their jaws are large enough to eat fish. Small crays would work as well.
#4
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Posted 29 February 2008 - 06:08 PM
I like to add any small nymphs I can collect to all my tanks. I also like to put pond plants into my tanks without removing the microfauna that comes along with them. I gently shake off silt and debris and do a good scan for larger preditory critters, then dump 'em right in the tank. I even float them in a bag to acclimate to temps. You'd be amazed at the critters that will colonize your tank. I keep old fashion corner box filters with polyester floss and they become refugia for diverse creepy crawlies that act as free live food. The one drawback is that nymphs or larvae of winged insects will emerge and fly around the house.
I've been collecting pics of some of the critters I find in my tanks. I'm gonna make a post on the topic eventually, but here's a preview.
These came from the box filter in my swamp tank. They make great starter food for fry.
I've been collecting pics of some of the critters I find in my tanks. I'm gonna make a post on the topic eventually, but here's a preview.
These came from the box filter in my swamp tank. They make great starter food for fry.
#5
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Posted 29 February 2008 - 06:56 PM
Hmm, you may be correct that nonpredatory insects could end up as darter food. Mikez, have you experienced that your nymphs generally get eaten if kept with insectivorous fish?
#6
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Posted 29 February 2008 - 08:35 PM
In a heterogeneous system, you can even get away with "megafauna" like dobsonfly and odonates. You'll never see them... Until they hatch:
othercritters3.jpg 34.78KB
2 downloads
So that's the downside of keeping them with fish. This guy was in there at least 2 years before I saw him here.
On the other hand, a planted tank with asellus isopods and then a couple odonates once the tank is well established and recruiting can be a very active, fun aquarium. Could be a great aquarium to keep some least or iowa darter in too!
I'm sure Dan will pipe in here before too long.
Nice photos btw Mike. I've been meaning to get some samples and take them into the lab to get photos of things like daphnia. I couldn't believe how many rotifers were in algae on the glass tops over the air bubble spray. The only samples that we had that had more species were plankton tows that were done over the course of summer in Lake Erie! Any jar samples that I collected from the pond etc were depauperate in comparison. It was amazing to me.
Todd
othercritters3.jpg 34.78KB
2 downloadsSo that's the downside of keeping them with fish. This guy was in there at least 2 years before I saw him here.
On the other hand, a planted tank with asellus isopods and then a couple odonates once the tank is well established and recruiting can be a very active, fun aquarium. Could be a great aquarium to keep some least or iowa darter in too!
I'm sure Dan will pipe in here before too long.
Nice photos btw Mike. I've been meaning to get some samples and take them into the lab to get photos of things like daphnia. I couldn't believe how many rotifers were in algae on the glass tops over the air bubble spray. The only samples that we had that had more species were plankton tows that were done over the course of summer in Lake Erie! Any jar samples that I collected from the pond etc were depauperate in comparison. It was amazing to me.
Todd
#7
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Posted 29 February 2008 - 08:44 PM
Thanks for mentioning rotifers Todd; they're an underappreciated group both in nature and in planted aquaria. Their seasonal succesional patterns in natural waters are almost as complex as that of the various diatoms.
#8
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Posted 29 February 2008 - 09:30 PM
I have had "perch bugs", dobson, dragonfly etc. Go unnoticed for quite a long time. Once I spot them, I get them out and either feed them to something or otherwise banish them on principle. Truthfully, I have never witnessed any predation on fish or fry but know it could happen.
I've had caddis larvae with particularly stout cases made of twigs and grains of sand that have lived out their larval stage and emerged as winged insects even in tanks with good sized sunfish.
I frequently have chrinomids like the red worm above that somehow avoid getting eaten and emerge to fly around the house looking exactly like mosquitos. My wife asks where do mosquitos come from in midwinter and eyes me doubtfully when I claim ignorence.
I'm actually getting kinda loopy about the micro-verts. Guys have been looking at me funny when I'm crouched over an icefishing hole using a brine shrimp net to capture copepods. I've got mason jars full of cyclops and various unknown critters incubating all over my cellar. I'm getting to the point where I'm seriously considering trying rotifers so I can attempt to raise up a batch of damsalfish larvae.
Speaking of saltwater, you should see some of the crazy critters that turn up in my saltwater tanks when I collect rocks and plants from the wild. A famous story around my house is the time a four inch green crab crawled across the kitchen floor and my wife thought it was a giant spider.
That guy entered my tank univited as a an almost invisable larvae and lived with me for over a year before he decided to try and get back to the ocean on his own power. 
I've had caddis larvae with particularly stout cases made of twigs and grains of sand that have lived out their larval stage and emerged as winged insects even in tanks with good sized sunfish.
I frequently have chrinomids like the red worm above that somehow avoid getting eaten and emerge to fly around the house looking exactly like mosquitos. My wife asks where do mosquitos come from in midwinter and eyes me doubtfully when I claim ignorence.
I'm actually getting kinda loopy about the micro-verts. Guys have been looking at me funny when I'm crouched over an icefishing hole using a brine shrimp net to capture copepods. I've got mason jars full of cyclops and various unknown critters incubating all over my cellar. I'm getting to the point where I'm seriously considering trying rotifers so I can attempt to raise up a batch of damsalfish larvae.
Speaking of saltwater, you should see some of the crazy critters that turn up in my saltwater tanks when I collect rocks and plants from the wild. A famous story around my house is the time a four inch green crab crawled across the kitchen floor and my wife thought it was a giant spider.
That guy entered my tank univited as a an almost invisable larvae and lived with me for over a year before he decided to try and get back to the ocean on his own power.
#9
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Posted 29 February 2008 - 10:42 PM
Yeah. This is exactly why I'm going to the dark side again. I can't stand it any more. Damn the allergies, reef tank ahead!
#10
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Posted 01 March 2008 - 01:28 AM
I tried to bring home some cranefly larvae once, at least I was told they were cranefly larvae. Big fat squishy things about the size of my pinky finger with retractible tenticle like appendiges at the mouth end. They reminded me of a seacucumber. Unfortunately they didn't fare too well. One didn't survive the trip home and the other 2 weren't looking too well when I got home, and died within a few hours. I think they require lots of oxygen. I may get one of those bait bucket aerators and try them again. When I realized they were going to die anyway I put them in my aquarium with my fish figuring the minnows might as well get a good meal. I figured the minnows would rip them to shreds. But they completely ignored them.
I would think some of the larger caddisfly larvae could probably work with small darters are they predatory or detritivores? Maybe some of the larger mayfly nymphs too.
You could give those a try if it doesn't work you'll have some fat and happy darters.
I would think some of the larger caddisfly larvae could probably work with small darters are they predatory or detritivores? Maybe some of the larger mayfly nymphs too.
You could give those a try if it doesn't work you'll have some fat and happy darters.
Edited by smilingfrog, 01 March 2008 - 02:26 AM.
#11
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Posted 01 March 2008 - 08:26 AM
Different species of crane flys use different habitat. Some favor clean high oxygenated streams. These I would assume need high DO. Other species live in some pretty nasty places. These I doubt you would be collecting just by virtue of the stinky environment they're found in.
There are numerous caddis fly species and they vary quite a bit in habit, with the case being the common feature they [mostly] all share. I'm not sure but seems to me I remember reading some species are preditors. You'd have to research that to be sure. I've kept them numerous times, never attempting to identify exact species. I just like the look of the cases and the fact that the case gives them enough protection that they are often visable out and about in day light. Although the case works pretty good as a shelter, I have found hundreds of caddis larvae, case and all, in the stomachs of trout. Some species of caddis are active at very low temps. I've found larvae crawling on the underside of stream ice. I've actually witnessed caddis emerging from icefishing holes on warm days. [How do they know it's a warm day when they're under the ice?] Apparently other insect foods are scarce at that time because that is when I find the most in trout stomachs.
Mayfly larvae are very cool looking and there are dozens of different species from a variety of habitat. They mostly favor clean, high DO environments, often in fast water but sometimes in clean lakes too. You don't usually see them much in a tank. They generally stay hidden as almost all fish think of them as candy. If you're lucky, you might get to see one swim up and change from larvae to pupa. If you have no fish large enough to eat it at that point, you might even get to see the winged adult emerge. To me they are some of the prettiest of the non-lepidoptera insects.
There are numerous caddis fly species and they vary quite a bit in habit, with the case being the common feature they [mostly] all share. I'm not sure but seems to me I remember reading some species are preditors. You'd have to research that to be sure. I've kept them numerous times, never attempting to identify exact species. I just like the look of the cases and the fact that the case gives them enough protection that they are often visable out and about in day light. Although the case works pretty good as a shelter, I have found hundreds of caddis larvae, case and all, in the stomachs of trout. Some species of caddis are active at very low temps. I've found larvae crawling on the underside of stream ice. I've actually witnessed caddis emerging from icefishing holes on warm days. [How do they know it's a warm day when they're under the ice?] Apparently other insect foods are scarce at that time because that is when I find the most in trout stomachs.
Mayfly larvae are very cool looking and there are dozens of different species from a variety of habitat. They mostly favor clean, high DO environments, often in fast water but sometimes in clean lakes too. You don't usually see them much in a tank. They generally stay hidden as almost all fish think of them as candy. If you're lucky, you might get to see one swim up and change from larvae to pupa. If you have no fish large enough to eat it at that point, you might even get to see the winged adult emerge. To me they are some of the prettiest of the non-lepidoptera insects.
#12
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Posted 01 March 2008 - 12:41 PM
I don't really like caddisfly larvae because of the big boisterous homes they build. In my tank, damselfly larvae are a delicacy for the darters and mudminnow. Any that escape will be hunted down by my newt.
#13
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Posted 01 March 2008 - 12:42 PM
The northern case building caddisflies (which would be common in your area) are shredders/grazers. They'll eat on detritus and rotting plant tissue. I kept them before I started keeping suckers (they suck them out of the cases like candy from a wrapper) and they do really well with smaller fish like dartes and minnows.
In fact, I just remembered that was my Mom's first experience with emmerging adult insects. She thought they were winged ants. Man, was I in trouble
Todd
In fact, I just remembered that was my Mom's first experience with emmerging adult insects. She thought they were winged ants. Man, was I in trouble
Todd
#14
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Posted 01 March 2008 - 02:30 PM
Wow, so I guess stream insects are more commonly kept than I thought. I'm still trying to work out what a good design for a stream tank would be that actually mimics natural stream flow. I feel like just sticking a powerhead in a tank wouldn't really do it, because once the flow hits glass it will spread out in weird directions. Works well for surge type flow in oceans. I know streams have turbulent flow too, but I can't picture it being very directional in the end. Are there any good resources here for stream tank designs?
#15
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Posted 01 March 2008 - 03:09 PM
Todd has an awesome stream tank. Here's how he did it:
http://farmertodd.co...e_fish_tank.pdf
And here's a river tank design from Loaches.com. It looks interesting:
Loaches.com River Tank Manifold
http://farmertodd.co...e_fish_tank.pdf
And here's a river tank design from Loaches.com. It looks interesting:
Loaches.com River Tank Manifold
#16
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Posted 01 March 2008 - 04:22 PM
Todd has an awesome stream tank. Here's how he did it:
http://farmertodd.co...e_fish_tank.pdf
And here's a river tank design from Loaches.com. It looks interesting:
Loaches.com River Tank Manifold
I am using a setup like the loaches.com article
here's my thread http://forum.nanfa.o...wtopic=3635&hl=
#17
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Posted 01 March 2008 - 06:25 PM
I am using a setup like the loaches.com article
here's my thread http://forum.nanfa.o...wtopic=3635&hl=
Cool! I must have read the loaches.com article after you posted that. I wondered what a real tank would look like with that kind of set up. It looks great!
#18
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Posted 01 March 2008 - 06:56 PM
Wow, so I guess stream insects are more commonly kept than I thought.
I know streams have turbulent flow too, but I can't picture it being very directional in the end. Are there any good resources here for stream tank designs?
I don't know about "common"... You just landed in the world of the oddities. But we all seem to like it
I'll take a picture of my powerhead and spray bar type deal that's been really good at creating laminar flow. I've been meaning to do that.
Todd
#19
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Posted 01 March 2008 - 07:17 PM
True, I don't think any of the organisms discussed on these boards could be considered commonly kept in the aquarium hobby as a whole. I guess the appeal of collecting your own pets doesn't really catch as many people.
I'd love to see a more in-depth view of your spray bar that you're using. I've had a few ideas that I'm trying to work out so that I could get a tank up and running for the summer.
For those that have purposely kept aquatic insects, when is the time to collect them? I obviously don't want them to undergo metamorphosis right away. Maybe I should study up on my insect life cycles.
I'd love to see a more in-depth view of your spray bar that you're using. I've had a few ideas that I'm trying to work out so that I could get a tank up and running for the summer.
For those that have purposely kept aquatic insects, when is the time to collect them? I obviously don't want them to undergo metamorphosis right away. Maybe I should study up on my insect life cycles.
#20
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Posted 01 March 2008 - 07:22 PM
My darter tank was based on the plans from loaches.com. I'll have to drag out the photos from when I assembled it.Cool! I must have read the loaches.com article after you posted that. I wondered what a real tank would look like with that kind of set up. It looks great!
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