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Cyprinella help

Started by Guest_teleost_* , Oct 16 2006 01:19 PM

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39 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_teleost_*

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 01:19 PM

We caught these fish in Sugar creek, Parke county Indidna in Middle October.

I feel the first fish (in this post) is a Steelcolored shiner (Cyprinella whipplei).

I've included a link to a larger full body image and posted close up shots of the various features.

Please correct me if this ID is incorrect.

http://img241.images...pplei029hp6.jpg

Edit: link

Attached Files

Cyprinella_whipplei_caudal_029.jpg 104.53KB 598 downloads
Cyprinella_whipplei_029.jpg 81.34KB 598 downloads
Cyprinella_whipplei_head029.jpg 39.35KB 598 downloads
Cyprinella_whipplei_dorsal_fin_029.jpg 49.65KB 597 downloads
Cyprinella_whipplei_scale029.jpg 34.63KB 597 downloads

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#2 Guest_teleost_*

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 01:29 PM

This next fish seems a bit different. Body color, mouth pigmentation as well as pigment between scales appear different. This fish also has a caudal spot (which Cyprinella around here should not have). This fish also seems to have a larger eye than the above fish. Any thoughts on what this is?

Same location as above fish.

http://img123.images...laspp020ls7.jpg

Edit: link

Attached Files

Cyprinella_Spp.020.jpg 105.13KB 593 downloads
Cyprinella_Spp_head.020.jpg 59.41KB 593 downloads
Cyprinella_Spp_dorsal_fin.020.jpg 72.7KB 592 downloads
Cyprinella_Spp_scale.020.jpg 38.84KB 592 downloads
Cyprinella_Spp_caudal_.020.jpg 83.42KB 592 downloads

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#3 Guest_dsmith73_*

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 02:12 PM

Is C. venusta found there? The dark blotch at the caudal peduncle in the second pic reminds me of venusta.

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#4 Guest_teleost_*

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 02:22 PM

Is C. venusta found there? The dark blotch at the caudal peduncle in the second pic reminds me of venusta.

Anything is possible but, venusta should be found about 275 river miles away. This is based on natural distribution. The dark caudal spot is a real head turner for me. None of the local Cyprinella have this.

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#5 Guest_dredcon_*

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 02:24 PM

How many of the second fish did you catch?

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#6 Guest_teleost_*

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 02:24 PM

How many of the second fish did you catch?

Only one.

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#7 Guest_dsmith73_*

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 02:29 PM

THe dorsal fin spot seems to be in a different orientation as well.

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#8 Guest_dredcon_*

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 02:34 PM

From what I can tell they have different anal ray counts.

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#9 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 02:41 PM

Notropis photogenis Silver shiner

Does it have black crescents between its nostrils?

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#10 Guest_teleost_*

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 02:43 PM

I should have started the thread with this side by side. Lots of differences (more than I state above).

Attached Files

Cyprinella_comparison.JPG 143.92KB 560 downloads

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#11 Guest_dsmith73_*

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 03:16 PM

I'm almost positive it is a Cyprinella species, rather than Notropis. I am sticking with venusta. It was really only a matter of time before they take over every waterway in the country.

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#12 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 03:20 PM

Does venusta have black lips?

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#13 Guest_dredcon_*

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 03:22 PM

Venusta was my first though too, everything seems to match it except the range.

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#14 Guest_teleost_*

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 03:28 PM

I'm almost positive it is a Cyprinella species, rather than Notropis.

I think he was making an inside joke on that one :lol:

And yes Skipjack, I'm laughing. Silver CHUB.

I was on the venusta train last night looking at this fish. I had to get off at the next stop since this would be very far out of range. I'll have to check my ticket again though.

It was really only a matter of time before they take over every waterway in the country.

I have no experienece with venusta. Are they a dominating fish?

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#15 Guest_dsmith73_*

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 03:29 PM

It is by far the predominant minnow in the gulf coast region.

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#16 Guest_dredcon_*

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 03:34 PM

I have caught more venusta than any other fish, I would imagine.

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#17 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 03:49 PM

http://www.samford.e...04s/pages/6.htm

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#18 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 03:53 PM

I know you were in Indiana
http://www.inhs.uiuc.../cy_venusta.gif

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#19 Guest_dredcon_*

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 03:54 PM

Its not uncommon to see venusta with a washed out tail spot, I think I may have one in my tank at home. What other cyprinella species are found in the area?

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#20 Guest_teleost_*

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 03:58 PM

http://nas.er.usgs.g...p?SpeciesID=521

Are you fellas sure on this one? Since I have no experience with venusta and don't have my books on me I must ask this again. I know it's hard to track introdustions but the USGS feels this fish isn't there either. Not that the USGS is the authority...

See arrow for collection location.