Hey! I cultured bloodworms!
I set up a new planted tank a couple of weeks ago. The plants arrived very late and I didn't have time to clean them, so I just planted them quickly and hoped for the best.
A few days later, my tank was slam-full of bloodworms. Great. Must have missed some eggs or something. They grew very quickly despite my not feeding them anything, and a few more days later they all vanished.
Two days after that, my tank was full of flies. The midges were trapped under the hood.
The next day a whole bunch of Cyclops, microworms, and even a few Daphnia appeared. The cloudiness of the water cleared up overnight after that, and now even a couple of small snails are at work.
The brown diatoms appeared and coated everything as they usually do, but yesterday, like magic, they all suddenly died off, shrivelled up, and fell off of the plants and glass in clumps. Now everything is clean.
A few days ago I noticed a bunch of long, hollow, gelatinous tube-sock looking eggcases floating in a clump on the surface. Today they hatched, and the tank is again slam-full of teeny-tiny little baby bloodworms, and I do mean thousands of them. I don't recall ever before having had that happen in one of my tanks, so it's pretty nifty.
This tank has been pretty entertaining so far, and I haven't yet even added any fish. I suppose I had better hurry up and do that, though, before my house get taken over by flies.
I cultured bloodworms by accident
Started by
Guest_Mysteryman_*
, Mar 30 2008 09:41 AM
33 replies to this topic
#2
Guest_jase_*
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Posted 30 March 2008 - 10:53 AM
That's pretty awesome. I thought bloodworms and glassworms were supposed to be impossible to culture because the adult midges need to swarm naturally to mate and lay eggs.A few days ago I noticed a bunch of long, hollow, gelatinous tube-sock looking eggcases floating in a clump on the surface. Today they hatched, and the tank is again slam-full of teeny-tiny little baby bloodworms, and I do mean thousands of them. I don't recall ever before having had that happen in one of my tanks, so it's pretty nifty.
Can you pass on as many details as possible? Light cycle, light intensity and color temperature, water temperature, amount of space between the water and top of hood, etc?
If I recall correctly, some Asian scientists have put a lot of work into trying to culture bloodworms/glassworms indoors, with only limited success. I think a full-on greenhouse is usually required, and I don't think even *that* always works.
Cheers, Jase
#3
Guest_TurtleLover_*
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Posted 30 March 2008 - 11:58 AM
That's so cool! Congrats on your accidental experiment tank.
#4
Guest_p3purr_*
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Posted 31 March 2008 - 02:26 AM
That is really cool. 
I'm interested in more data too. Did you get any pics?
I'm interested in more data too. Did you get any pics?
#5
Guest_Mysteryman_*
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Posted 31 March 2008 - 09:08 AM
I suppose I could take some pics, but they won't show very much. Mine isn't a very good camera.
It's just a standard 10-gallon tank with a tight-fitting lid. The space inside is only an inch or so. The lights are two compact flourescents in this incandescent hood, you know, the flourescents that screw into incandescent sockets. 6500k, I think.
The pH is 7.8, the temp is 75F, the water is soft, but not very soft.
The substrate is topsoil covered with a very thin layer of gravel. The tank is heavily planted.
The midges are mostly floating on top of the water, or clinging to floating plant bits. They look dead, and some are, but most will take off flying if disturbed. They look kinda like little midget mini-mosquitoes.
I never thought this was possible, either, but I never really thought much about it.
I have no idea what they're all eating. I haven't fed them anything.
It's just a standard 10-gallon tank with a tight-fitting lid. The space inside is only an inch or so. The lights are two compact flourescents in this incandescent hood, you know, the flourescents that screw into incandescent sockets. 6500k, I think.
The pH is 7.8, the temp is 75F, the water is soft, but not very soft.
The substrate is topsoil covered with a very thin layer of gravel. The tank is heavily planted.
The midges are mostly floating on top of the water, or clinging to floating plant bits. They look dead, and some are, but most will take off flying if disturbed. They look kinda like little midget mini-mosquitoes.
I never thought this was possible, either, but I never really thought much about it.
I have no idea what they're all eating. I haven't fed them anything.
#6
Guest_jase_*
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Posted 31 March 2008 - 09:42 AM
Any sign of a 2nd generation yet? Or is it way too early for that?
I'd say you ought to offer some of the bloodworms out to other NANFA members. Who knows, maybe you stumbled upon a species/morph that can reproduce in conditions that others won't. I'll try to do some research on this later, but I'm almost certain that doing complete life cycles in a tank like that is supposed to be impossible.
Congrats! -Jase
I'd say you ought to offer some of the bloodworms out to other NANFA members. Who knows, maybe you stumbled upon a species/morph that can reproduce in conditions that others won't. I'll try to do some research on this later, but I'm almost certain that doing complete life cycles in a tank like that is supposed to be impossible.
Congrats! -Jase
#7
Guest_critterguy_*
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Posted 06 April 2008 - 09:13 PM
Wow...that is so cool! I say keep that tank and harvest those worms.
Wonder if this'd work in 5 gal buckets with screen tops?
Wonder if this'd work in 5 gal buckets with screen tops?
#8
Guest_jase_*
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Posted 07 April 2008 - 10:13 AM
Seriously, mysteryman, please consider offering some of these bloodworms to other NANFA folks. Maybe it was just a fluke, but maybe you hit on some particular strain that can breed in an aquarium. personally, I'd love to get 20 or so of the bloodworms to rear to adults and try my luck. Should be extremely easy and cheap to ship...
#9
Guest_critterguy_*
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Posted 12 April 2008 - 11:57 AM
I did some looking around on the net.
It turns out that certain species of bloodworms are commonly cultured in laboratory situations. Obtaining starters could be difficult unless you knew who to contact.
I believe even mosquitoes can eventually be bred in small screen cages.
It turns out that certain species of bloodworms are commonly cultured in laboratory situations. Obtaining starters could be difficult unless you knew who to contact.
I believe even mosquitoes can eventually be bred in small screen cages.
#10
Guest_Mysteryman_*
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Posted 12 April 2008 - 12:48 PM
Well, the second generation has now given rise to a third.
It's getting kinda messy, to be honest. I tried to clean things up and get rid of some of them, but all it did was slow them down a bit. The tank itself is failing and I'll have to probably take major action to fix it.
These worms aren't the bright scarlet ones you normally think of, but are instead a dull red to rusty red. They're definitely chironomids, though, and differ from ordinary bloodworms only in color and maybe by size. These are a bit smaller than the usual ones. On the other hand, I still haven't FED them anything. Ever. At all.
I suppose I can send some around to a few interested people. Who knows, may someday these can be a common live food item. I'll post a pic here momentarily.
Okay, here's a picture, such as it is. The little gray Cyclops can be used for size comparison. These aren't as big as they get, though; they're just what I could photograph. They get about twice this size at maximum.
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Okay, it's a lousy picture, and it doesn't show as much as I hoped it would, but they're bloodworms of some sort.
The tank looks terrible, doesn't it? It looked just fine two weeks ago. It's turning into a big culture vat before my eyes, despite my efforts to stop it. I'd be happy to get rid of these things by sending ya'll some. It looks like I'm gonna have to scrap & redo this tank in a big hurry soon.
If some adult flies would be helpful to any of you for identification purposes, I can certainly send you some of those as well.
It's getting kinda messy, to be honest. I tried to clean things up and get rid of some of them, but all it did was slow them down a bit. The tank itself is failing and I'll have to probably take major action to fix it.
These worms aren't the bright scarlet ones you normally think of, but are instead a dull red to rusty red. They're definitely chironomids, though, and differ from ordinary bloodworms only in color and maybe by size. These are a bit smaller than the usual ones. On the other hand, I still haven't FED them anything. Ever. At all.
I suppose I can send some around to a few interested people. Who knows, may someday these can be a common live food item. I'll post a pic here momentarily.
Okay, here's a picture, such as it is. The little gray Cyclops can be used for size comparison. These aren't as big as they get, though; they're just what I could photograph. They get about twice this size at maximum.
.
Okay, it's a lousy picture, and it doesn't show as much as I hoped it would, but they're bloodworms of some sort.
The tank looks terrible, doesn't it? It looked just fine two weeks ago. It's turning into a big culture vat before my eyes, despite my efforts to stop it. I'd be happy to get rid of these things by sending ya'll some. It looks like I'm gonna have to scrap & redo this tank in a big hurry soon.
If some adult flies would be helpful to any of you for identification purposes, I can certainly send you some of those as well.
Edited by Mysteryman, 12 April 2008 - 01:16 PM.
#11
Guest_critterguy_*
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Posted 12 April 2008 - 10:12 PM
Put me on the list!
Do you think your use of topsoil may have contributed to the success? i wonder what would be involved in the longterm maintenance of a culture.
How are the plants doing?
Do you think your use of topsoil may have contributed to the success? i wonder what would be involved in the longterm maintenance of a culture.
How are the plants doing?
#12
Guest_Mysteryman_*
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Posted 12 April 2008 - 10:42 PM
The plants are fine, or at least have been fine so far, but now that the water is getting murkier every day they are losing more & more light. If I don't clear it up very soon, I think they may suffer.
I've been very unhappy with this soil, since it's not really soil but wood compost, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's a contributing factor to this "success" which I'm starting to consider a failure. It's fine for growing various tiny critters, but makes for a lousy fishtank. The soil is Scott's Premium Topsoil, which is quite the misnomer.
I'm gonna have to start over with better dirt.
The worms are starting to pupate again. I recognize their behavior from the last times. They sit on the bottom and spasmodically squirm in place.
Okay, critterguy, you're on the list.
Just send me a private message with your shipping address. The same goes to any others who want some, but please be quick about it, as I'll be forced to tear down this mess very soon. If I had more available room I'd leave it up and running, but I don't, and I'm not crazy about the idea of having thousands of small flies in my bedroom.
If ever there was a tank very badly in need of some Heterandria formosa, this is it. They could possibly clean it up nicely. I have some Tanichthys micagemmae coming, and this was supposed to be their tank, but I don't want to put them in it. They'd love the smorgabord of nematodes and bloodworms, but there's too many copepods running amok, and they're not always safe.
I've been very unhappy with this soil, since it's not really soil but wood compost, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's a contributing factor to this "success" which I'm starting to consider a failure. It's fine for growing various tiny critters, but makes for a lousy fishtank. The soil is Scott's Premium Topsoil, which is quite the misnomer.
I'm gonna have to start over with better dirt.
The worms are starting to pupate again. I recognize their behavior from the last times. They sit on the bottom and spasmodically squirm in place.
Okay, critterguy, you're on the list.
Just send me a private message with your shipping address. The same goes to any others who want some, but please be quick about it, as I'll be forced to tear down this mess very soon. If I had more available room I'd leave it up and running, but I don't, and I'm not crazy about the idea of having thousands of small flies in my bedroom.
If ever there was a tank very badly in need of some Heterandria formosa, this is it. They could possibly clean it up nicely. I have some Tanichthys micagemmae coming, and this was supposed to be their tank, but I don't want to put them in it. They'd love the smorgabord of nematodes and bloodworms, but there's too many copepods running amok, and they're not always safe.
Edited by Mysteryman, 12 April 2008 - 10:53 PM.
#13
Guest_critterguy_*
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Posted 12 April 2008 - 11:24 PM
Not too familiar with the Scotts brand. I guess you could check ingredients if they are listed. Any fertilizers? Some potting soils have composted manure too...but most are mainly peat, woodchips, and perlite. Never seen true "topsoil" for sale.
#14
Guest_nativeplanter_*
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Posted 13 April 2008 - 06:25 PM
When you tear down your tank, see if you can find the cheap Hyponex brand of soil. It is sold as potting soil, but is a lousy excuse for that use. It is sold at the Wal-Mart near me, as well as in little bags at the dollar store. It actually has soil in it. Looks to be essentially topsoil to me, which is too dense for potted plants but great for this use. Many other commercial potting soils don't actually have any soil - just peat and composted forest products with perhaps pearlite or vermiculite. BTW, stay away from anything that has pearlite in it at all costs. The stuff will float up for centuries.
#15
Guest_jase_*
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Posted 13 April 2008 - 07:34 PM
I'd definitely like to try my luck with these also. I'll PM my shipping address. Thanks! If you're raising these guys this quickly without trying too hard, that bodes well for the ability of others to replicate it.
Cheers, Jase
Cheers, Jase
#16
Guest_scottefontay_*
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Posted 13 April 2008 - 09:57 PM
I'd definitely like to try my luck with these also. I'll PM my shipping address. Thanks! If you're raising these guys this quickly without trying too hard, that bodes well for the ability of others to replicate it.
Cheers, Jase
just a thought...possible negative impacts associated with sending flying insects accross the country?
#17
Guest_jase_*
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Posted 13 April 2008 - 10:09 PM
Hmmm... good thought, Scott, but I don't think it's too much of a concern, especially if staying in the East. There isn't much to prevent a midge from dispersing to the extent of its range on its own power, and there are *plenty* of forms of transportation for them to hitchhike on (tractor trailer, anyone?) to help them along. But, yeah, maybe think twice about sending west of the Rockies, and definitely not internationally...just a thought...possible negative impacts associated with sending flying insects accross the country?
Cheers, Jase
#18
Guest_Mysteryman_*
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Posted 14 April 2008 - 03:23 AM
Well, the things are pupating and burrowing into the dirt. By the time they get to you they might be flies instead of worms. No matter, just trap them under your hoods in a planted tank and you'll have worms again soon enough. I'll ship them tomorrow, er, today I guess, so maybe you'll still get worms.
#19
Guest_jase_*
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Posted 14 April 2008 - 07:43 AM
Hmm... hope you're including a bit of the water from that tank with the larvae you're shipping out. I think these things are mostly filter feeders like mosquitoes, so there's something in your water they're liking.They're definitely chironomids, though, and differ from ordinary bloodworms only in color and maybe by size. These are a bit smaller than the usual ones. On the other hand, I still haven't FED them anything. Ever. At all.
I hereby dub them "Mystery Bloodworms"!I suppose I can send some around to a few interested people. Who knows, may someday these can be a common live food item.
#20
Guest_Mysteryman_*
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Posted 14 April 2008 - 08:12 AM
I seem to have hit a snag.
It turned really cold last night, and the tank is unheated, and they were pupating anyway...I guess you can see where this is going. They're all in the dirt now, and not one is visible. That means in a few days I'll have more flies than I can count, and that you wouldn't get worms in the mail, but flies, assuming I could even get them at this point. I think it would be best to hold off a week and send you all a bunch of fresh new worms & water. I had hoped I could get them out before this happened.
If you actually WANT adult flies, let me know and I'll send them when they hatch. That'll be cheaper since they won't need water that way, but they'll be trickier to install into your tanks.
I agree that they must be eating something in the water, and with water this foul, it must be a grand buffet. I guess the adults must not eat anything?
It turned really cold last night, and the tank is unheated, and they were pupating anyway...I guess you can see where this is going. They're all in the dirt now, and not one is visible. That means in a few days I'll have more flies than I can count, and that you wouldn't get worms in the mail, but flies, assuming I could even get them at this point. I think it would be best to hold off a week and send you all a bunch of fresh new worms & water. I had hoped I could get them out before this happened.
If you actually WANT adult flies, let me know and I'll send them when they hatch. That'll be cheaper since they won't need water that way, but they'll be trickier to install into your tanks.
I agree that they must be eating something in the water, and with water this foul, it must be a grand buffet. I guess the adults must not eat anything?
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