anyone have multiple tank sump systems currently or in the past? I am looking to plumb a bunch of 10 and 15 gals together (not in series) to ease water changes and keep water parameters consistent between my rearing tanks, so moving things around isn't as much of a potential issue. Any dos or don'ts, your crazy, or any expereinces? What type of overflows can I make simply? I will still have sponge filters in all the tanks, just want to circulate water from a central location as well.
Multiple tank sump
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, Apr 07 2008 09:41 AM
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#2
Guest_jase_*
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Posted 07 April 2008 - 10:10 AM
I'm about to set up my multiple-tank sump system this weekend -- I'll take photos as I do it and post them. I haven't done it before, but I've been researching how to do it for about 2 years now, in hopes that I'd finally have a situation that would make it feasible.
#3
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Posted 07 April 2008 - 10:58 AM
I'm about to set up my multiple-tank sump system this weekend -- I'll take photos as I do it and post them. I haven't done it before, but I've been researching how to do it for about 2 years now, in hopes that I'd finally have a situation that would make it feasible.
I could see 10-15 tanks on one 50 gallon sump. Just to dilute the poo, not filter anything and facilitate water changes. the sponges I have been using with my central air pump hace proven more than adequate. Let me know how it goes, and good luck!
#4
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Posted 07 April 2008 - 11:06 AM
I have some pretty fun/creative schemes in mind for mine. I will keep sponge filters (actually my home-rolled sponge filter alternative: http://forum.nanfa.o...h...ost&p=33066) in each tank as a backup, but I'm planning to add some steps to remove more solids and maybe a dedicated algae or java moss tank in-line to remove nitrogen from the system. Centralizing water changes will be a big bonus. I'm always looking for ways to reduce the amount of maintenance I do on my tanks, so centralizing seems the way to go.I could see 10-15 tanks on one 50 gallon sump. Just to dilute the poo, not filter anything and facilitate water changes. the sponges I have been using with my central air pump hace proven more than adequate. Let me know how it goes, and good luck!
Take pics and post about it when you do yours. It's always good to see what other frugal-minded folks come up with. Info on centralized sump/filter systems you find on tropical or saltwater sites always seem to focus on what shiny-new cannister filter and UV sterilization systems are part of it -- not stuff I'm interested in.
Simple/cheap = good. And the more biology and less chemistry involved, the better.
Edited by jase, 07 April 2008 - 11:08 AM.
#5
Michael Wolfe
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Posted 07 April 2008 - 03:48 PM
anyone have multiple tank sump systems currently or in the past? I am looking to plumb a bunch of 10 and 15 gals together (not in series) to ease water changes and keep water parameters consistent between my rearing tanks, so moving things around isn't as much of a potential issue. Any dos or don'ts, your crazy, or any expereinces? What type of overflows can I make simply? I will still have sponge filters in all the tanks, just want to circulate water from a central location as well.
I have three tanks (30 gallon breeder style - actually have capacity for four but one is currently empty) plumbed together with a 50 gallon sump... I have no real filtration on this system... lots of plants in one of the tanks, and some plants in the sump... and it pretty much works as planned... I thought I had a picture in an old thread... I will have to take a look...
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#6
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Posted 08 April 2008 - 12:58 AM
The easiest way to add overflows that I've found is to simply drill a hole in the bottom of the tank, add a bulkhead, and put a standpipe in up to where you want the water level in the tank to be (this is obviously much easier with fiberglass and acrylic vs glass, but small glass tanks are usually pretty easily and safe to drill). This works best in holding/rearing tanks where the aesthetics are less of a concern, but you can always conceal a standpipe with driftwood or vegetation to some degree. You can connect as many tanks as you'd like by building a manifold of larger diameter PVC than the standpipe and simply draining that to the sump. I've used these type systems successfully with tanks as small as 20 gal and as large as 250.
The only hints I would offer are to make sure you put a ball valve on the return line for each individual tank so you can tweak the flow rates, and isolate systems if need be. You can also plumb the manifold so that it is open ended and rises above the water level in the tanks to help the water flow a bit more smoothly to the sump. You can buy overflows that will screw directly in to PVC, or just wrap a little plastic mesh around the top of the sandpipe and secure it w/ a cable tie. Below are a couple of pics of similar systems set up w/ big tanks, and the schematic used to build them- you can see on the bottom tanks the super high tech biofilters (5 gallon buckets), and the biofilters in the sumps of these systems are just larger plastic buckets filled with biomedia. The nice thing about your plan is that with the sponge filters in each tank, it would be pretty easy to isolate any given tank for any reason (oh and jase I love the DIY sponge filters, I'm going to have to borrow your idea when I set my home tanks back up)
The only hints I would offer are to make sure you put a ball valve on the return line for each individual tank so you can tweak the flow rates, and isolate systems if need be. You can also plumb the manifold so that it is open ended and rises above the water level in the tanks to help the water flow a bit more smoothly to the sump. You can buy overflows that will screw directly in to PVC, or just wrap a little plastic mesh around the top of the sandpipe and secure it w/ a cable tie. Below are a couple of pics of similar systems set up w/ big tanks, and the schematic used to build them- you can see on the bottom tanks the super high tech biofilters (5 gallon buckets), and the biofilters in the sumps of these systems are just larger plastic buckets filled with biomedia. The nice thing about your plan is that with the sponge filters in each tank, it would be pretty easy to isolate any given tank for any reason (oh and jase I love the DIY sponge filters, I'm going to have to borrow your idea when I set my home tanks back up)
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Edited by BLChristie, 08 April 2008 - 01:09 AM.
#7
Guest_jase_*
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Posted 08 April 2008 - 06:28 AM
BLChristie, can you find a good photo/description of how a standpipe works? I'm familiar with the concept, but I'm sure many folks aren't.
If you're going that route, I'd definitely suggest making sure that the PVC standpipe is inserted in a slip-fitting at the very base. That way you can easily switch lengths to change water level, and also just pull the standpipe out to drain the tank in a flash.
A trout hatchery I volunteered at briefly had their fry/fingerling tanks set up as large circular fiberglass tanks with the standpipe in the very middle. The incoming water was directed to create a slow whirlpool. That meant that all debris collected in the center where the standpipe was. Lifting the standpipe caused the debris to be sucked out the bottom drain in just a couple seconds -- *extremely* low maintenance.
I've got some ideas about how I'll replicate that circular flow and bottom-central debris collection in my tanks without drilling the bottom or having a standpipe in the center -- stay tuned over the next couple months.
If you're going that route, I'd definitely suggest making sure that the PVC standpipe is inserted in a slip-fitting at the very base. That way you can easily switch lengths to change water level, and also just pull the standpipe out to drain the tank in a flash.
A trout hatchery I volunteered at briefly had their fry/fingerling tanks set up as large circular fiberglass tanks with the standpipe in the very middle. The incoming water was directed to create a slow whirlpool. That meant that all debris collected in the center where the standpipe was. Lifting the standpipe caused the debris to be sucked out the bottom drain in just a couple seconds -- *extremely* low maintenance.
I've got some ideas about how I'll replicate that circular flow and bottom-central debris collection in my tanks without drilling the bottom or having a standpipe in the center -- stay tuned over the next couple months.
#8
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Posted 08 April 2008 - 08:23 AM
One other note -- if you did this and wanted the standpipe to be clear for aesthetics (and to verify flow), you can get clear plastic (polycarbonate) tubes intended as protective transport cases for T8 & T12 fluorescent lamp tubes. I'm not sure how they'd match up with PVC fitting sizes, but they're *far* cheaper than the rigid plastic airlift tubes you buy from an LFS. You'll find them at Home Depot or Lowe's by the fluorescent tubes or light fixtures. I bought a 4' one intended for a T8 lamp. It's 1 1/4" OD, just a fraction less ID (seems like that should fit 1 1/4 PVC fittings...). Cost about $3. 8' versions were only slightly more expensive. The labels says "Clear Polycarbonate Tube Lamp Guard" if you're looking for one. Never again will I buy airlift tubes from a fish store...
Ah, here's a link: http://tinyurl.com/4wnove . That's for a T12 lamp, so it's probably 1 3/4" OD, but same idea.
Ah, here's a link: http://tinyurl.com/4wnove . That's for a T12 lamp, so it's probably 1 3/4" OD, but same idea.
Edited by jase, 08 April 2008 - 08:26 AM.
#9
Michael Wolfe
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Posted 08 April 2008 - 08:31 PM
I have three tanks (30 gallon breeder style - actually have capacity for four but one is currently empty) plumbed together with a 50 gallon sump... I have no real filtration on this system... lots of plants in one of the tanks, and some plants in the sump... and it pretty much works as planned... I thought I had a picture in an old thread... I will have to take a look...
Here are some photos of my setup... as you can see, I do have valves on each output and one of the tanks has a standpipe... the other two are drilled on the back wall with a 90 degree overflow...
tank_rack.JPG 215.09KB
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sump.JPG 171.7KB
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pump.JPG 216.42KB
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#10
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Posted 08 April 2008 - 09:53 PM
Another consideration is use of a shunt and head tank to direct pump over-capacity back to sump. Enables more constant pressure to tank inlets, therefore more consistent flow. Especially when multiple tanks in parallel and the variations in pump performance associated with bio-fouling.
System shown below had twenty-eight 40-gallon glass breeder but has been upraded to 72 tanks. Poor use of floor space but easy to maintain flow and clean.
28.bmp 1.27MB
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Second system used to breed bluegill. Composed of twelve 75-gallon glass aquariums and a 125-gallon combination sump / biofilter. This shunting system causes problems whenever a valve to one of the tanks is opened greatly.
breeder.bmp 1.27MB
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System shown below had twenty-eight 40-gallon glass breeder but has been upraded to 72 tanks. Poor use of floor space but easy to maintain flow and clean.
28.bmp 1.27MB
20 downloadsSecond system used to breed bluegill. Composed of twelve 75-gallon glass aquariums and a 125-gallon combination sump / biofilter. This shunting system causes problems whenever a valve to one of the tanks is opened greatly.
breeder.bmp 1.27MB
9 downloads
Edited by centrarchid, 08 April 2008 - 09:59 PM.
#11
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Posted 08 April 2008 - 11:24 PM
Here are centrarchid's images in an easier-to-view format:
28.gif 17.59KB
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breeder.gif 14.26KB
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Another consideration is use of a shunt and head tank to direct pump over-capacity back to sump. Enables more constant pressure to tank inlets, therefore more consistent flow. Especially when multiple tanks in parallel and the variations in pump performance associated with bio-fouling.
System shown below had twenty-eight 40-gallon glass breeder but has been upraded to 72 tanks. Poor use of floor space but easy to maintain flow and clean.
28.gif 17.59KB
0 downloadsSecond system used to breed bluegill. Composed of twelve 75-gallon glass aquariums and a 125-gallon combination sump / biofilter. This shunting system causes problems whenever a valve to one of the tanks is opened greatly.
breeder.gif 14.26KB
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#12
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Posted 09 April 2008 - 12:20 AM
Trying again to be more informative. The diagram is of a shunt / head tank system I use to maintain a constant flow capability in some of my water reuse systems. The shunt enables water not directed to culture tanks to be short circuited to the sump without need for modifying back pressure (head) on pump during normal system operation. Makeup water can be either continous or intermitant. Waste water from system exits standpipe in sump to either fall to floor and flow to drain or go through a waste pipe. Particulate and biological filtration components not shown but when used are placed in the same order between culture tanks and sump. Missing information on water flwoing from head tank to valve to culture tank.
shunt_sytem.GIF 10.86KB
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shunt_sytem.GIF 10.86KB
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Edited by centrarchid, 09 April 2008 - 12:22 AM.
#13
Guest_scottefontay_*
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Posted 09 April 2008 - 06:04 AM
Thanks for the great info guys. I really like the use of the shunt/heat tank, I can see that really alleviating a lot of head aches!
Micheal and Centrarchid, did you drill your own tanks? That part scares me...
Micheal and Centrarchid, did you drill your own tanks? That part scares me...
Edited by scottefontay, 09 April 2008 - 06:05 AM.
#14
Michael Wolfe
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Posted 09 April 2008 - 08:20 AM
Thanks for the great info guys. I really like the use of the shunt/heat tank, I can see that really alleviating a lot of head aches!
Micheal and Centrarchid, did you drill your own tanks? That part scares me...
No I did not... the two with the holes in the back side wall were pre-drilled... the other one, I purchased the bottom glass, and took the old bottom out (it was cracked)... and resealed the tank myself... that was enough of a challenge for me... but it did go well and I have resealed several old tanks since then...
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#15
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Posted 09 April 2008 - 08:38 AM
For drilling we took our tanks to a glass shop. We got a volume discount for initial quote but they found drilling was faster and easier than they expected. Used diamond bit we bought. Watch out with glass, some brands now with tempered bottoms that does not drill well.
#16
Guest_Irate Mormon_*
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Posted 09 April 2008 - 06:51 PM
Michael - where did you get the plastic applique killifish?
#17
Guest_BLChristie_*
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Posted 09 April 2008 - 11:07 PM
BLChristie, can you find a good photo/description of how a standpipe works? I'm familiar with the concept, but I'm sure many folks aren't.
If you're going that route, I'd definitely suggest making sure that the PVC standpipe is inserted in a slip-fitting at the very base. That way you can easily switch lengths to change water level, and also just pull the standpipe out to drain the tank in a flash.
Couldn't find a good close up shot of the workings of a standpipe, but the schematics Centrarchid posted pretty well sum it up, and good call on not gluing the standpipe in the thread fitting at the bulkhead, I've also found that method pretty useful for clearing out detritus in tanks!
...at any rate here are a few more shots of a couple different multiple tank systems, and a quick diagram that shows the open-ended manifold (you can also see one in the 3rd picture, sort of), it really does help the water flow a lot smoother back to the sump, and is especially useful where you have two or more rows of tanks at different levels as the flow of water from the bottom tanks is typically less than the tanks above them (only becomes a critical issues when your pipes are too small and your turnover is too high though)
...note the creative use of zip-ties throughout
This is just a temporary setup, equipment will be secured better as time permits...
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#18
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Posted 10 April 2008 - 07:42 AM
The not using glue on standpipes can not be over emphasized as it can greatly reduce need for siphoning just to drain a tank. Also shop around for bulkhead fittings. I prefer those that take a 1 1/2" threaded male adpapter but we have also learned the surface on the inside of the tank should be smooth. We seldom allow gravel in most of our tank but when we do, getting it out of the crevices of a molded bulhead can be aggrevating adn the same crevices can collect organic matter becoming an incubator for pathogenic organisms.good call on not gluing the standpipe in the thread fitting at the bulkhead, I've also found that method pretty useful for clearing out detritus in tanks!
#19
Michael Wolfe
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Posted 10 April 2008 - 10:47 PM
NANFA Convention Auction Huntsville Alabama... I think that was 2003... Casper made them and used them as (with some additional lettering) as a way to point people to the correct building... an extra or two made their way into the auction, and I was lucky enough to come away with one... held on to it for a while until I found the right place of honor for it.Michael - where did you get the plastic applique killifish?
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#20
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Posted 11 April 2008 - 06:27 AM
thanks again guys!!!! I really appreciate the simplicity of these set-ups (once they are set up!!) and will certainly integrate both the shunt/head tank and the open return line as, hydraulically, they make a whole hell of a lot of sense. Still daunted by getting holes into all the tanks, but one step at a time. I guess I will have to be shuffling fish around this summer and doing one or two at a time.
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