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Burn, baby, burn...

Started by Guest_farmertodd_* , Apr 21 2008 10:17 PM

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29 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_farmertodd_*

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Posted 21 April 2008 - 10:17 PM

...Shiner Inferno!

http://www.farmertod.../Reefle/041908/

DSC_1068.jpg 51.39KB 2 downloads
Rainbow Shiner - Notropis chrosomus

DSC_1182.jpg 37.62KB 1 downloads
Piedmont Shiner - Notropis chlorocephalus cf. sp.

DSC_1119.jpg 38.17KB 3 downloads
Redlip Shiner - Notropis chiliticus (Broad)

DSC_1044.jpg 31.84KB 0 downloads
Redlip Shiner - Notropis chiliticus (Catawba)

DSC_1120.jpg 46.15KB 1 downloads
Ozark Shiner - Notropis percobromus

Film coming to a monitor near you soon!

Todd

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#2 Guest_mikez_*

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Posted 21 April 2008 - 10:21 PM

Aaamazing!

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#3 Guest_natureman187_*

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Posted 21 April 2008 - 10:34 PM

As always Todd, I'm flabbergasted/jealous/amazed/speechless at the same time.

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#4 Guest_scottefontay_*

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 07:58 AM

I didn't know Photoshop had those colors.......

Those fish are drop-dead gorgeous!! I'm drooling. Nice pics!!

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#5 Guest_AC-Editor_*

Guests

Posted 22 April 2008 - 08:31 AM

Todd,

How long do the shiners maintain these colors in your aquaria?

Chris

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#6 Guest_farmertodd_*

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 10:47 AM

Thanks guys!

Chris, they stay like "this" for limited amounts of time. This particular event ran about 8 hours and then everything was colored back down the next morning (which is usually when the rainbow shiners were most fired up). This event was the first that I'd found the rainbow shiner females ALSO colored into the day-glo cotton candy color, and was the first I'd seen the intense red in the piedmont shiner, and the first I'd found that crazy yellow and red on the Broad "redlip".

I fed 'em up last night, I expect there to be more activity tonight. It really must be expensive in terms of energy for them.

I wish I had been able to watch this more systematically, since it is a controlled environment and we know all specimens. Maybe something to think about in future work.

I blame it all on getting the temp down to 40 degrees for 3 weeks and maintaining them under 50 degrees for 3 months. All those cold mornings running through the fish room to let the dog out were worth it

I'll try and get some of the film online tonight. I have footage of the rainbow shiners at least clasping and dropping once. Needless to say, I didn't bother to feed the darters last night

Todd

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#7 Guest_schambers_*

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 01:08 PM

Awesome pictures! Those are gorgeous fish!

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#8 Guest_farmertodd_*

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 01:17 PM

Thanks Susan! I wish they'd had fired up like this when you guys were over earlier that day!

Quick Editorial Note: The final fish in the pictures shown in the thread is an Ozark Minnow, Notropis nubilus. This is what happens when you get into a danged hurry

Todd

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#9 Guest_tricolor_*

Guests

Posted 22 April 2008 - 08:21 PM

Congrats!

Eventhough I see rainbows color up quite regulary it's still a great attraction

Not all female rainbows would color up though, but I am not sure whether or not the burning female would be the ready one. No burning saffron yet?

That burning greenhead/piedmont look like stuff in Peterson's guide. Only Broad redlip got yellow head?

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#10 Guest_fundulus_*

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 08:29 PM

I'm not gung-ho for splitting new species, but I'd say your photos of the two populations of N. chiliticus are good evidence for the existence of at least two separate species in the existing species. The males have markedly different coloration which would probably attract different females. And yeah, that's about reproductive separation.

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#11 Guest_farmertodd_*

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 09:43 PM

What stinks is you can't tell them by coloration when they're even half way colored down (I know them by size), but yeah... That's definately going to figure into female selection.

Tricolor, yeah the yellow head like that is only on the Broad specimens. The saffrons I have are disappointing. I think they've got something in their guts I need to treat. They just aren't growing and getting into good condition despite eating fairly well. The others are such pigs tho. I dunno what their deal is. Maybe if the rest of them die off, the saffrons will kick it in.

Okay kiddos... Here's some movies. They're big, I do appologize to the people without broadband. You WON'T be disappointed, I didn't want to loose too much in the capture. To compensate, I made the actual spawning of the rainbows the shortest stretch of film. Unfortunately, I got excited and hit the zoom right when she shot the eggs. Oh well.

http://www.farmertod...us_Spawn_01.wmv (7.8 mb)
Claspin' and droppin' 'em in.

http://www.farmertod...us_Spawn_02.wmv (10.4 mb)
Now everyone wants to see what was going on.

http://www.farmertod...ox_Spawn_02.wmv (12.0 mb)
Kinda gives you the whole tank view.

Enjoy!

Todd
p.s. Wolfe Man... We hooked the beast up to a Mac last week. That looks very promising. Maybe I'll have some footage to you soon!

Edited by farmertodd, 22 April 2008 - 09:45 PM.

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#12 Guest_mette_*

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 09:55 PM

Okay kiddos... Here's some movies. They're big, I do appologize to the people without broadband. You WON'T be disappointed, I didn't want to loose too much in the capture. To compensate, I made the actual spawning of the rainbows the shortest stretch of film. Unfortunately, I got excited and hit the zoom right when she shot the eggs. Oh well.

Good stuff -- thanks for posting them.

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#13 Guest_centrarchid_*

Guests

Posted 22 April 2008 - 10:57 PM

Todd,

Impressive videos! You indicate pumped / colored-up condition short term. Any idea what the frequency is between reproductive bouts? Any consistancy in timing of bouts on diel cycle? Can you set up your camera to do time lapse?

This makes me want to go out and get some ozark shiners and give them a go.

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#14 Guest_farmertodd_*

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Posted 23 April 2008 - 11:49 AM

Thanks guys. Yeah, Centrarchid, if I were you, I'd be going right out and getting Ozark minnows, bleeding shiners and southern redbelly dace. They'll all love having a chub nest without having to look for bass

They're really all some spectacular minnow species, I think bleeding shiners are one of my favorite fish, period. The Ozark minnows are a real sleeper.

I think the reproductive boughts rely more on food than anything in my aquaria. They may just do it once or twice or three times in the wild and die. I have really had to feed them back into condition. I think tonight they'll be back at it, and hopefully I can maintain them after the spawning stops (I'm going to pull the nest in a week so they don't burn out). Others have had theirs die after spawning. It all makes sense, they spending a ton of energy without eating. As you know, reproduction is expensive for most vertebrates.

Todd

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#15 Guest_tricolor_*

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Posted 23 April 2008 - 01:13 PM

Thanks! The movie sadly shows that many that join the circus are for cavier [even male rainbows right after the spawning act...]. Also bleeding shiners are not in full dress yet too, so I hope they will become spectacular soon. Does the greenhead [without green head] get burning though?

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#16 Guest_farmertodd_*

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Posted 23 April 2008 - 01:52 PM

Not the head, it seems. I had the more traditional greenhead in there too, but he disappeared. He was really the first to "show up to the party" so I fear he's gone and bit it. I hope I don't have an empty tank in 3 weeks!

Todd

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#17 Guest_dafrimpster_*

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Posted 23 April 2008 - 02:28 PM

I showed your pics to my rainbow shiners in hopes of inspiring them to do the same. They just kinda looked at me with that "Where's the daphnia?" look and swam away. :tongue:

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#18 Guest_farmertodd_*

Guests

Posted 23 April 2008 - 02:35 PM

Yeah, that technique only seems to work with human males.

Todd

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#19 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 23 April 2008 - 03:48 PM

I'm at work... I will try to watch these tonight... I'm expecting good things... and yeah, when you get em ready, I will jump at the chance to work on some projects with you...

http://www.farmertod...us_Spawn_01.wmv (7.8 mb)
Claspin' and droppin' 'em in.

http://www.farmertod...us_Spawn_02.wmv (10.4 mb)
Now everyone wants to see what was going on.

http://www.farmertod...ox_Spawn_02.wmv (12.0 mb)
Kinda gives you the whole tank view.

Enjoy!

Todd
p.s. Wolfe Man... We hooked the beast up to a Mac last week. That looks very promising. Maybe I'll have some footage to you soon!

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

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#20 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 23 April 2008 - 04:15 PM

Thanks guys. Yeah, Centrarchid, if I were you, I'd be going right out and getting Ozark minnows, bleeding shiners and southern redbelly dace. They'll all love having a chub nest without having to look for bass They're really all some spectacular minnow species, I think bleeding shiners are one of my favorite fish, period. The Ozark minnows are a real sleeper.

I think the reproductive boughts rely more on food than anything in my aquaria. They may just do it once or twice or three times in the wild and die. I have really had to feed them back into condition. I think tonight they'll be back at it, and hopefully I can maintain them after the spawning stops (I'm going to pull the nest in a week so they don't burn out). Others have had theirs die after spawning. It all makes sense, they spending a ton of energy without eating. As you know, reproduction is expensive for most vertebrates.

Todd

It's interesting that you mention food as a key driver... I have noticed my Athens yellowfins (with neon green heads and white fins...when they are jazzed up) have always shown the tendancy to color up and show a level of 'excitement' based on food... particularly on frozen food if I have been feeding flakes or pellets for a few days.

I always chalked it up to 'excitement' but now I am thinking it is more of a situation of fulfilling all the requirements for getting excited with high quality and high quantity of food being the element that provides the tipping point.

MW

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin