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looking for members in Colorado


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#1 Guest_brian1973_*

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Posted 23 April 2008 - 09:11 PM

Hello,
If any other members are in Colorado please let me know, I have started the ball rolling questioning DOW on why keeping natives is illegal and am going to continue this fight, my next step will probably be to contact my district state senate rep. Heres the thing one voice doesnt do much the more support I can get the better chance we have at changing this.
Thanks
Brian

#2 Guest_Irate Mormon_*

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Posted 24 April 2008 - 10:51 AM

I think you have 4 members in Colorada. AFIK, none of them frequent the forum. Hence the sound of crickets. But many here will be intensely interested in following the dialog between you and DOW.

#3 Guest_brian1973_*

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Posted 24 April 2008 - 06:22 PM

Looks like I have striked out here, I also posted a similar message on another forum with a link to NANFA but same thing plenty of views but no replies. Just gotta keep bumping it to the top of the new posts and hope I get a few responses.

#4 Guest_keepnatives_*

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Posted 24 April 2008 - 07:08 PM

Looks like I have striked out here, I also posted a similar message on another forum with a link to NANFA but same thing plenty of views but no replies. Just gotta keep bumping it to the top of the new posts and hope I get a few responses.

Unfortunately numbers are not on our side and even more so state by state. We need to work together at legitimizing our cause. So keep posting whatever you try and I for one don't plan on rolling over on this issue in any state but it will be a tough battle at best.

#5 Guest_jvanderpoel_*

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Posted 03 July 2008 - 11:27 PM

Hi Brian,

I am a new member in Colorado and was totally surprised when I found out it is illegal to keep native fish species. You can use many of them for bait....but need keep them in your pond? That makes no sense.

John Vanderpoel

#6 Guest_Hiero_*

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 03:22 PM

Sorry to necro-post but I wanted to add a bit to this old discussion.

I spent a few hours pouring over the CFRs the other day. It seems to me the keeping of native fishes is not illegal depending on how they were obtained. If they were not taken from the wild, ie not "wildlife", then it is legal. Keeping natives in an aquarium that were collected/taken from the wild is where the legality comes greatly into question. There are a good number of licensed aquaculturists who stock numerous native species in the state that I'm sure would be happy to sell a few individuals to hobbyists. I'm in need of a channel cat in my aquarium and my plan is to get one from the above.

I'm happy to look up and post the related CFRs relating to this to clarify.

#7 Guest_bassboy753_*

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 03:01 AM

Heiro- Define wild.

I am in Colorado Springs. I'm kinda new to this whole thing but interested.

#8 Guest_Hiero_*

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 04:09 PM

Hi bassboy. Caught your thread on bluegill and was about to reply regarding state regulations. Came here to look for links on it and saw your post.

When I get home from work I'll look up the appropriate CFRs relating to the issue of catching and keeping native fish as pets in CO and post the links with information here. If I remember correctly they do define the term "wildlife" and it covers just about every living thing that occcurs and reproduces naturally in the state, including exotics.

#9 Guest_Hiero_*

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 06:39 PM

Sorry for a long post but here's the info.

Link to Colorado Revised Statutes (CRS):

http://www.michie.co...=main-h.htm&cp=


Of interest here is Title 33 WILDLIFE AND PARKS AND OUTDOOR RECREATION.

33-1-102. Definitions.

(46) "Transport" means to ship, carry, convey, or transfer from one place to another and includes an offer to transport and the receipt or possession for transportation.

(51) "Wildlife" means wild vertebrates, mollusks, and crustaceans, whether alive or dead, including any part, product, egg, or offspring thereof, that exist as a species in a natural wild state in their place of origin, presently or historically, except those species determined to be domestic animals by rule or regulation by the commission and the state agricultural commission. Such determination within this statute shall not affect other statutes or court decisions determining injury to persons or damage to property which depend on the classification of animals by such statute or court decision as wild or domestic animals.


33-6-114.5. Native and nonnative fish - possession, transportation, importation, exportation, and release - penalties.

(1) It is unlawful for any person to possess, transport, import, or export any live native or nonnative fish or viable gametes (eggs or sperm) except in accordance with the rules and regulations of the commission.



Here we hit the big problem in the statute. However, it does allow for exceptions in accordance with rules/regs of DOW. Given those quotes we can move on to Division of Wildlife regulations.

Link to Division of Wildlife Regulations:

http://wildlife.stat...gs/Regulations/

From Chapter 00 - General Provisions, ARTICLE VII - AQUATIC WILDLIFE, #010 TRANSPORTATION OF AQUATIC WILDLIFE (p.19):

B. Live aquatic wildlife may only be transported pursuant to a personal fishing license (aquatic wildlife for use as bait only), a commercial fishing license, a receipt from a permitted aquaculture or pet animal facility, an aquaculture facility permit, a pet animal facility permit, an importation license, or a bill of lading or other similar documentation.


Note "for use as bait only" above. At this point we encounter a legal problem with taking (ie. transporting) fish from the wild for a home aquarium. It might be argued that the spirit of the regulation is to prevent illegal introduction of aquatic species from one environment to another, but that is not explicit. Based on other forum posts in here relating correspondence with DOW, it appears the DOW's interpretation of their regulation is strictly literal. Keep in mind however that this regulation only prohibits the transportation, not possession, of aquatic wildlife not intended for bait. Also, there is no provision for how long one may possess aquatic wildlife that was taken and transported (to a home aquarium) as bait, although there is a list of species that may be used for bait. If I were to be bold and go ahead with taking a fish I caught home to my aquarium and get caught, this bait clause would be my best defense (and not necessarily a very good one).

From Chapter 00 - General Provisions, ARTICLE VII - AQUATIC WILDLIFE, #012 POSSESSION OF AQUATIC WILDLIFE (p.20):

A. Except as provided in these regulations or authorized by the Division of Wildlife or under Title 33 or Title 35 C.R.S., it shall be unlawful for any person to possess any live native or nonnative aquatic wildlife in Colorado.


Here we see the prohibition again in the DOW regs, again with the exclusionary clause. However, a personal and/or commercial fishing license allows take and possession of certain aquatic wildlife. One might ask if this includes possession of these fish alive in a home aquarium. There is no place this is explicitly allowed in the regulations (at least that I can find) and the general spirit of the DOW regs seems to lean towards prohibiting this sort of possession. Nevertheless, some might find the ambiguity enough to go ahead and keep fish they caught legally with a fishing license in their aquarium.

There are additional rules to what species may be taken and what methods may be used to catch bait in Chapter 01 - Fishing. These are important to read if you are going to use something other than hook and line to catch fish for bait, as nets and seines are illegal in many counties.

The bottom line is that it is explicitly stated that keeping aquatic wildlife species is illegal, with a clause allowing exceptions per DOW regulations, Title 33 and Title 35 CRS. A search through the latter three for exceptions to this illegality yields nothing explicitly allowing a person with a fishing license to bring home fish to live in their aquarium, so it is probably not legal. However, you can purchase an aquatic wildlife species from a licensed pet store or aquaculturist and then it is legal to possess so long as you have a receipt of your purchase.

Edited by Hiero, 12 January 2010 - 06:44 PM.


#10 Guest_bassboy753_*

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 01:18 AM

Sorry for a long post but here's the info.

Link to Colorado Revised Statutes (CRS):

http://www.michie.co...=main-h.htm&cp=


Of interest here is Title 33 WILDLIFE AND PARKS AND OUTDOOR RECREATION.





Here we hit the big problem in the statute. However, it does allow for exceptions in accordance with rules/regs of DOW. Given those quotes we can move on to Division of Wildlife regulations.

Link to Division of Wildlife Regulations:

http://wildlife.stat...gs/Regulations/

From Chapter 00 - General Provisions, ARTICLE VII - AQUATIC WILDLIFE, #010 TRANSPORTATION OF AQUATIC WILDLIFE (p.19):



Note "for use as bait only" above. At this point we encounter a legal problem with taking (ie. transporting) fish from the wild for a home aquarium. It might be argued that the spirit of the regulation is to prevent illegal introduction of aquatic species from one environment to another, but that is not explicit. Based on other forum posts in here relating correspondence with DOW, it appears the DOW's interpretation of their regulation is strictly literal. Keep in mind however that this regulation only prohibits the transportation, not possession, of aquatic wildlife not intended for bait. Also, there is no provision for how long one may possess aquatic wildlife that was taken and transported (to a home aquarium) as bait, although there is a list of species that may be used for bait. If I were to be bold and go ahead with taking a fish I caught home to my aquarium and get caught, this bait clause would be my best defense (and not necessarily a very good one).

From Chapter 00 - General Provisions, ARTICLE VII - AQUATIC WILDLIFE, #012 POSSESSION OF AQUATIC WILDLIFE (p.20):



Here we see the prohibition again in the DOW regs, again with the exclusionary clause. However, a personal and/or commercial fishing license allows take and possession of certain aquatic wildlife. One might ask if this includes possession of these fish alive in a home aquarium. There is no place this is explicitly allowed in the regulations (at least that I can find) and the general spirit of the DOW regs seems to lean towards prohibiting this sort of possession. Nevertheless, some might find the ambiguity enough to go ahead and keep fish they caught legally with a fishing license in their aquarium.

There are additional rules to what species may be taken and what methods may be used to catch bait in Chapter 01 - Fishing. These are important to read if you are going to use something other than hook and line to catch fish for bait, as nets and seines are illegal in many counties.

The bottom line is that it is explicitly stated that keeping aquatic wildlife species is illegal, with a clause allowing exceptions per DOW regulations, Title 33 and Title 35 CRS. A search through the latter three for exceptions to this illegality yields nothing explicitly allowing a person with a fishing license to bring home fish to live in their aquarium, so it is probably not legal. However, you can purchase an aquatic wildlife species from a licensed pet store or aquaculturist and then it is legal to possess so long as you have a receipt of your purchase.


The simple defense that I had come up with is that it just counts towards your possesion limit. I think as long as you don't have malicious intent with the fish, the state would not have a problme with it.

#11 Guest_Hiero_*

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Posted 21 January 2010 - 05:38 PM

The simple defense that I had come up with is that it just counts towards your possesion limit. I think as long as you don't have malicious intent with the fish, the state would not have a problme with it.

Sounds as good a defense as any. Another regulation to be aware of is regarding use of nets, etc.:

From DOW Fishing regulations (104H):

H. Take, Possession and Use of Fish, Amphibians, and Crustaceans for bait, personal or commercial use
1. The seining, netting, trapping, and dipping of fish is prohibited statewide in all natural streams, springs, all waters in Adams, Arapahoe, Boulder, Broomfield, Clear Creek, Denver, Douglas, Gilpin, Elbert, Jefferson, and Park counties, and all public standing waters in Rio Grande, Saguache, Conejos, Costilla, Alamosa, Mineral and Hinsdale counties in the Rio Grande drainage.
a. Fish handled or produced on commercially licensed aquaculture facilities are exempt from this regulation.

2. The only fish species allowed to be taken and used for consumption or personal use as bait (either alive or dead) by fishing, seining, netting, trapping, or dipping are minnows, bluegill, hybrid bluegill, carp, sunfish, gizzard shad, sculpin, white and longnose suckers, yellow perch and rainbow smelt. Statewide bag limits apply to sunfish, bluegill, hybrid bluegills and yellow perch.


Since you're in the Springs you aren't covered by this restriction, but something to keep in mind if you're travelling around.

#12 Guest_brian1973_*

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Posted 21 January 2010 - 08:26 PM

Hello all, I am the original topic starter... I no longer live in CO. Somewhere the dialog between myself and DOW is posted. It has been a while but the only legal way to keep a native fish in CO was to purchase it from a aquaculterist (sp?) within the state. I do wish you guys luck.



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