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Newbie - Collecting Florida Natives


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#1 Guest_farawayinn_*

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 04:57 PM

Hi all. I have been avidly digesting all that is on this forum and I have a few questions. If anyone can give a newbie some advice I would really appreciate it. I'm located in Cedar Key Florida, gulf coast near Gainesville. I have been keeping tropicals and ponds for decades, but have never tried a native tank. I would really like to try my hand a dipnetting in the freshwater ponds, swamps, and ditches on the mainland in our area.

Here is my problem, how do you identify these natives in the field? I only want to keep what is going to be a good match for my aquarium and has a good likelihood of surviving in the conditions I can provide. I have been seeking a field guide for Florida freshwater fish and have come up empty. Lots of books on local saltwater and freshwater gamefish, but I don't think that will meet my needs. Any ideas?

I currently have a 70 gal setup and waiting, cycled filter from another tank, temp around 75 deg. Based on what I've read on the forums, I think a few small sunnies, flagtails, mollies, or similar would be a great looking setup. I plan to plant heavily with submerged and marginal plants and use large driftwood coming up through the open top. The tank is outdoors in a mostly shade area, a lot of incidental light but no direct mid-day sun, to keep the temp fluctuations to a minimum. Any suggestions for what species to look for that would be native to this area would be most helpful. By the way, the tank may stay outdoors with a heater keeping worst case temps above 60 deg, or moved into the garage for the winter if needed.

This is a great forum!!! I have already learned so much about dipnet types and mesh sizes, waders, salt treatment of new captures, etc. It's all very new and exciting. I haven't had this much fun with a new setup since my first saltwater reef tank! Thank you in advance.

#2 Guest_Newt_*

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 05:36 PM

Hello and welcome!

It's going to be extra tough to ID fish in your area because there are so many exotics in the waterways. A good place to start is the Peterson field guide to North American fishes. The very best way to learn fishes is to go collecting with someone who does know them. You might try posting in the Local section to look for some nearby NANFA folks who could go collecting with you.

There are so many fish to choose from it's hard to recommend any particular species. Do you want a few, large fish or a community tank?

#3 Michael Wolfe

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 05:58 PM

Your best option is to join NANFA and ocntact Charlie Nunziata... he used to be the Florida regional rep... probably still is... and that group in florida created a very nice resource for florida members / collectors...

And there are a few members down that way as well... best way to learn field identification in my opinion is standing in the water with a guy that knows (and is willing to tell... which is most NANFA people).

Well I just checked and it looks like Charlie is still the man, but the link to the collecting guide looks to be pointing to something else... so I would email Charlie and try to talk to him about it...

Edited by Michael Wolfe, 26 April 2008 - 06:03 PM.

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

#4 Guest_farawayinn_*

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 07:35 PM

Thank you very much.

Newt - I will start out by getting a copy of the Petersen guide. I was hoping for something more local, florida or southeast. But you have to start somewhere! As far as the fish go, I want them all. Haven't kept a fish yet that didn't have something positive going for it. Most of my tanks over the years have been large tropical cichlids and large south am catfish. Honestly, what brought me to this site was a search for info on collecting bowfin. But I think this tank will be more a part of the garden, so maybe something with personality, but not too hard on the plants. I thought small sunnies or similar.

Michael - I will look into NANFA membership this week. Then I'll try to contact Mr Nunziata and some of the local members to see if they have any advice. Thank you for pointing me in the right direction.

Tomorrow I hope to try my best in some of the roadside ditches closeby. Don't have a real dipnet yet, but will try what I have on hand. Wish me luck. :smile2:

Oliver

#5 Guest_pmk00001_*

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 05:49 AM

Welcome to the forum!

This isn't the best resource, but the Florida FWC has a checklist of fishes and further information on some of the more popular species (and prohibited/restricted species).

Florida Checklist

PS I'm sure you'll be glad to hear that the Parasitic Catfish is on the prohibited list :D/

#6 Guest_farawayinn_*

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 12:32 PM

Thank you very much pmk. That list is quite informative for a beginner. Still hoping to get out there today, but may have to drive to Gainesville (1 hr each way) to buy an a/c unit for our business :-(

#7 Guest_farawayinn_*

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Posted 29 April 2008 - 12:18 AM

Just joined NANFA!!! :-D Have had some great contact with a local "fish head". Still haven't found time to actually get my feet wet, but I'm trying to be patient. Business first, otherwise I may end up having too much time available for playing in the muck. :-) Thank you all again for your help and encouragement. Will keep you posted.

#8 Guest_Doug_Dame_*

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Posted 15 May 2008 - 02:39 AM

Just joined NANFA!!! :-D Have had some great contact with a local "fish head". Still haven't found time to actually get my feet wet, but I'm trying to be patient. Business first, otherwise I may end up having too much time available for playing in the muck. :-) Thank you all again for your help and encouragement. Will keep you posted.

FarAwayInn from Cedar Key FL hereby promoted from DryFoot Newbie to WetFoot Newbie. I met him at his place Tuesday, and, accompanied by a couple of his friends he invited along (<=== note: natural leadership and organizational skills), we set off in search of fishy possibilities.

He has passed the following tests:

* JOINING NANFA !!!
* buying selected important fishy references
* ordering a net from Jonah's (arriving soon)
* finding the deep hole so others could avoid same
* sliding down bank into lake
* collecting in lake with curious gator
* net full of spiders
* entry into thigh deep muck
* self-extraction from thigh deep muck
* Snacks and ManFood 101
* Basic DeLorme navigation
* smiling through it all
* carrying gear and full buckets back to vehicles
* sharing loot

We sampled the following environments within 5 to 25 miles of Cedar Key
(1) a small coastal lake
(2) a sluggish swamp creek
(3) a flowing creek
(4) a brackish water tidal channel with the saltmarsh grasses
- we would have done many roadside ditches too but they're ALL dried up.

We experienced:
* Bluefin killies (1,3) *** very nice - blue fins, red fins, orange fins (I don't recall having seen those before), clear fins
* damnbusia (of course - 1,2,3)
* Heter (1,2,3)
* baby bluegills (1,2,3) warmouth (1,2)
* swamp darters (1,2)
* golden-ear topminnow (2)
* flagfish (sadly just 1) (2)
* mollies (2,3,4) - colored up and showing off
* lots of small pickerel (2) - 2", 3", 4", 5" but curiously no 1", maybe it's already too late for them - the ones I looked at closely were chains
* pirate perch (2) x many
* 1" lake chubsuckers (2)
* baby bullhead of some sort
* saw but did not catch redbreast sunfish (or something like them) bedding, largemouth bass, golden shiners shooting by
* sailfin shiners (Pt. hypselopterus I guess) (3)
* Okefenokees (1,2,3)

and brackish (site #4)
* diamond killies (one of my favs) - many many
* gulf killies - many
* marsh killies - many
* sheepshead pupfish - many
* mollies (fabulous males and monster barrel-shaped females) - many many
* longnose killies - many many
* baby drum - some
* baby mullet - many many
* silverside, not sure which type - few
* pinfish - many
* sand gnats, deer flies, horse flies (technically, they sampled us, with some enthusiasm, despite repellent)

For the more professional amongst you, yes, all of these fishes have Latin names.

A good time was had by all. Sadly I did not take a single picture, not much of a photo-journalist.

BTW, Oliver and his wife have by far the neatest "water garden in a tub with fish" that I have ever seen ... I am encouraging him to post a px or two. I think it's probably the new home of some of his new bluefin killies.

d. [fishhead?] d.

#9 Guest_farawayinn_*

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Posted 15 May 2008 - 05:55 AM

FarAwayInn from Cedar Key FL hereby promoted from DryFoot Newbie to WetFoot Newbie. I met him at his place Tuesday, and, accompanied by a couple of his friends he invited along (<=== note: natural leadership and organizational skills), we set off in search of fishy possibilities.

He has passed the following tests:

* JOINING NANFA !!!
* buying selected important fishy references
* ordering a net from Jonah's (arriving soon)
* finding the deep hole so others could avoid same
* sliding down bank into lake
* collecting in lake with curious gator
* net full of spiders
* entry into thigh deep muck
* self-extraction from thigh deep muck
* Snacks and ManFood 101
* Basic DeLorme navigation
* smiling through it all
* carrying gear and full buckets back to vehicles
* sharing loot

We sampled the following environments within 5 to 25 miles of Cedar Key
(1) a small coastal lake
(2) a sluggish swamp creek
(3) a flowing creek
(4) a brackish water tidal channel with the saltmarsh grasses
- we would have done many roadside ditches too but they're ALL dried up.

We experienced:
* Bluefin killies (1,3) *** very nice - blue fins, red fins, orange fins (I don't recall having seen those before), clear fins
* damnbusia (of course - 1,2,3)
* Heter (1,2,3)
* baby bluegills (1,2,3) warmouth (1,2)
* swamp darters (1,2)
* golden-ear topminnow (2)
* flagfish (sadly just 1) (2)
* mollies (2,3,4) - colored up and showing off
* lots of small pickerel (2) - 2", 3", 4", 5" but curiously no 1", maybe it's already too late for them - the ones I looked at closely were chains
* pirate perch (2) x many
* 1" lake chubsuckers (2)
* baby bullhead of some sort
* saw but did not catch redbreast sunfish (or something like them) bedding, largemouth bass, golden shiners shooting by
* sailfin shiners (Pt. hypselopterus I guess) (3)
* Okefenokees (1,2,3)

and brackish (site #4)
* diamond killies (one of my favs) - many many
* gulf killies - many
* marsh killies - many
* sheepshead pupfish - many
* mollies (fabulous males and monster barrel-shaped females) - many many
* longnose killies - many many
* baby drum - some
* baby mullet - many many
* silverside, not sure which type - few
* pinfish - many
* sand gnats, deer flies, horse flies (technically, they sampled us, with some enthusiasm, despite repellent)

For the more professional amongst you, yes, all of these fishes have Latin names.

A good time was had by all. Sadly I did not take a single picture, not much of a photo-journalist.

BTW, Oliver and his wife have by far the neatest "water garden in a tub with fish" that I have ever seen ... I am encouraging him to post a px or two. I think it's probably the new home of some of his new bluefin killies.

d. [fishhead?] d.


Hi everybody,
This was by far the most fun I've had with my clothes on in many years. Well except for the brackish area, still nursing bite wounds from those deer flies. Thank you so much Doug for all of your encouragement and advice, and use of equipment, and for showing my friends a great time as well, Steve wants to go out collecting again too, he loved seing the fish up close in the aquarium. I had no idea there were so many beautiful native fishes in our immediate area. All of these spots were within 1/2 hour drive of our home. Fish kept are doing well distributed among outdoor tanks, ponds and tubs. Flagfish and mollies grazing continuously. Bluefins and shiners eating prepared foods within minutes of being added to their new homes. Pygmy sunfish are in there somewhere, LOL. Formosa and swamp darters are grazing on tiny things in the plants. The topminnows are spectacular, defending a small section of the tank from mollies and have gotten even better color! Slight differences in pattern between the two, maybe male and female? Must go back soon to find more. This was an amazing experience. Everyone here has been so supportive, thank you. And a huge thanks to Doug, I owe you one! I will always remember that first big step. LOL.
Oliver

#10 Guest_mikez_*

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Posted 15 May 2008 - 05:55 AM

Excellent!
Sounds like a great time.
How'd those sheepshead minners look? The ones I saw on Marco Island were so colorful they didn't even look like the same animal as the ones we have up here. That hot sun and long season sure grows 'em pretty.
Next time take some pics. They don't have to the professional fish portraits some here can produce. A few habitat shots would have worked.
Keep your eyes peeled for any melanistic mollies. They're at the top of my wish list.

#11 Guest_itsme_*

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Posted 15 May 2008 - 01:24 PM

Yeah, if you mean the golden topminnows, they all have the little gold flecks, but I think only the males also have the dark orange spots scattered across the body. There is also a melanistic form that, in addition to the above, can have a varying degree of black spots or splotches all over the body in both males and females. Not to be confused with the melanistic mollies mentioned earlier.

#12 Guest_farawayinn_*

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Posted 15 May 2008 - 09:40 PM

I will try to take some pics of the fish soon. I haven't used the wife's camera much, but will give it my best shot. Maybe when I transfer a few of the fish. One member of our group, Ginnie, has a few area and people photos and I will try to post those. This was my first collecting trip and with so much going on bringing the camera never even came to mind. These spots are a short walk from areas I pass all the time, so will try to get some good location shots sometime. The water levels were all very low (except the pond LOL) because of a month long drought.

#13 Guest_Doug_Dame_*

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Posted 16 May 2008 - 09:08 PM

How'd those sheepshead minners look? The ones I saw on Marco Island were so colorful they didn't even look like the same animal as the ones we have up here. That hot sun and long season sure grows 'em pretty.

Some of them had a nice peachy-orange coloration on their lower front, but didn't get any with the flashing blue nape. Nice enough but not Hall of Fame contenders. (Besides, they're mainly "personality" fish.)

d.d.

#14 Guest_farawayinn_*

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Posted 16 May 2008 - 11:33 PM

Yeah, if you mean the golden topminnows, they all have the little gold flecks, but I think only the males also have the dark orange spots scattered across the body. There is also a melanistic form that, in addition to the above, can have a varying degree of black spots or splotches all over the body in both males and females. Not to be confused with the melanistic mollies mentioned earlier.

The male (I assume) is defending a section of the tank near a dense forest of floating flants. He has more red on the caudal and red spots on rear half of body. Both are gorgeous fish. These 2 were only ones we found, but I will keep an eye out for any melanistic individuals. They were caught in dense weeds at the edge of a stagnant creek, so I never saw them before they were in the net.
Waiting patiently for my new dipnet :smile2: . Thank you Mark for all your help on the phone when I placed my order.
Oliver

#15 Guest_itsme_*

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Posted 17 May 2008 - 11:50 AM

If you like the F chrysotus, there are very abundant in Florida, in the kind of habitat you described. You can get them easily by watching for the little splash they make when they see you, then dipping through the vegetation/debris. You may have to dig carefully through the pile you dredge up to be sure you don't miss them. It's fun! :) It's also fun to see what other surprises you might get in that pile. All kinds of tiny fishes and invertebrates. Florida waters are very productive.



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