I am looking for an inexpensive yet well made dipnet. My old round net has many holes in it, and I need something with a flat mouth anyhow. I don't really want to wait for one to be shipped to me, so are there any good stores to check out?

I'd like a gazillion dollars!

Seriously: Go ahead and order one from Jonah, and by the time your net that you buy from the store tears up (a few days), your GOOD net will be waiting on your doorstep.

If cost is an issue, just order the head and find or make your own handle.

There is NO DIPNET you can buy in any Wal-Mart, Cabela's, or whatever, that will hold up to even ONE day of serious collecting. But if you want a quick fix then go ahead - I've done it myself. Just treat the Wal-mart nets gently. And wait for that box to show up.

Seriously: Go ahead and order one from Jonah, and by the time your net that you buy from the store tears up (a few days), your GOOD net will be waiting on your doorstep.
If cost is an issue, just order the head and find or make your own handle.

That's what I did when I had mine shipped to me at the 2006 Convention. Check: http://forum.nanfa.o...h...ost&p=36503

I am about to order one from Jonah myself, but if you absolutely need something to get you by...I've been pretty happy with a net I got at Academy. The one I've used has black 3/16" mesh, an opening that's about 16" across, and a handle that's probably 5 feet long. The mouth is slightly curved, but has performed well for me in the past. The major drawback is the light aluminum handle. As long as you're not too forceful with it, it will last. I, however, try to bully the net through some thick vegetation at times, and have broken a handle or two.
Cheers

Dustin and I order ours from Cumings Scientific,

http://www.cumingsne...ge2Catalog.html

We use 270-12-SG

Dustin and I order ours from Cumings Scientific,

http://www.cumingsne...ge2Catalog.html

We use 270-12-SG

I use the same net, but will be purchasing from Jonah's soon. Both nets are nice.

-Tom

It's not the greatest, but easily available. I use pool cleaning nets I get at walmart for $10. They don't last all that long, maybe good for three collecting trips before the net rips away from the frame, but they're wide and have a relatively rectangular shape. Great for sweeping the bottom to get darters.

Hey,

Just curious , but what exactly would be the GOOD points about a collecting dip net?

• Size of frame?
• Round or squared front?
• Thickness of frame? aluminum or cold rolled steel?
• Chafe bar in front of the net frame?
• mesh size?
• weight of mesh ( heavier than Delta , Heavy Delta, etc.)?

I'd like to know if someone could take the time to post.

Maybe a picture of one that you all consider Top Grade??

sa va,

nm

The net we prefer, which is the net listed above, has several features hat make it ideal.

It has a sturdy wooden handle. We have never had a handle break. This also comes in handy when dipnetting along with a electroshocker.

The mesh size is 1/16" and the ace netting is a little stiffer and heavier than delta. It is still pliable but is more durable than plain delta netting. It is also died green, which I find helps me find the fish in it a little better.

The net has a relatively shallow bag, at 12".

It does have a sturdy steel frame with an additional chafe bar to keep from wearing the front of the netting. The frame is flat across the front which allows you to put it directly onto the bottom if need be. Frame size is 16 x 9".

The one complaint I have about this net is how the frame inserts into the handle. It is essentially connected by the two frame poles. These nets are pretty durable but we do an awful lot of scooping through very thick vegetation. We go through 2-4 nets a year, either because they snap where they insert into the pole or because the metal becomes so flimsy from being worked back and forth so much that it just becomes a hassle.

The net we prefer, which is the net listed above, has several features hat make it ideal.

It has a sturdy wooden handle. We have never had a handle break. This also comes in handy when dipnetting along with a electroshocker.

The mesh size is 1/16" and the ace netting is a little stiffer and heavier than delta. It is still pliable but is more durable than plain delta netting. It is also died green, which I find helps me find the fish in it a little better.

The net has a relatively shallow bag, at 12".

It does have a sturdy steel frame with an additional chafe bar to keep from wearing the front of the netting. The frame is flat across the front which allows you to put it directly onto the bottom if need be. Frame size is 16 x 9".

The one complaint I have about this net is how the frame inserts into the handle. It is essentially connected by the two frame poles. These nets are pretty durable but we do an awful lot of scooping through very thick vegetation. We go through 2-4 nets a year, either because they snap where they insert into the pole or because the metal becomes so flimsy from being worked back and forth so much that it just becomes a hassle.

Ok.


How much is weight a factor?
What if these nets were double in weight (total) but were double in strength all around?


Mesh......
1/16" on the square or on the streched?

What about a heavier netting but still 1/16 x 1/8" ? Is there a reason to have the net soft and pliable all the time? What about a thicker and somewhat stiffer material that would be about 3x's the strength of ACE? Something that would not get so tangled in detritus and would not tear as fast when you snagged it on sticks, limbs, etc.


Just asking questions.........

nm

I like the frame dimensions on the perfect dipnet. Any smaller and I feel I'm not making a good swipe and any larger I suspect I might not be able to lift weed masses. I think the leading edge of the net must be flat (the part of the net furthest from the operator). Weight is very important to me but strength is as well. That must be hard to balance. I don't really care about material of the frame but I've had aluminum frames in the past fail almost immediately (not the perfect dipnet). Some sort of mechanism on the leading edge to protect the mesh is a must. Dipnets see such abuse, nets without them don't last very long. I think the mesh size on the Cummings net is a bit large. It measures 1/16" X 1/4". Many yoy fish slip through. I have no opinion on the weight of the mesh aside from the fact that too heavy a net "pushes" too much water and creates resistance on a swipe. I like a somewhat shallow bag but an inch or two greater depth on the cummings would be nice. The depth of the perfect dipnet forces me to spend too much time digging through the bag.

How much is weight a factor?
What if these nets were double in weight (total) but were double in strength all around?

Twice might be a bit much but the idea intrigues me. Considering how many swipes are done in a day (many hundred) operator fatigue should be considered. Perhaps balancing might help a heavy net?

What about a heavier netting but still 1/16 x 1/8" ? Is there a reason to have the net soft and pliable all the time? What about a thicker and somewhat stiffer material that would be about 3x's the strength of ACE? Something that would not get so tangled in detritus and would not tear as fast when you snagged it on sticks, limbs, etc.

I've never ripped the mesh on a dipnet. They always seem to fail elsewhere before they rip. I'm the kind of guy that mends nets almost monthly so minor dipnet repair does not concern me. I don't think soft netting is a deal breaker but netting that's too rough might damage smaller and more delicate fishes.

Ok,



If I were looking at a Dip Net for sampling YOY , it would be safe to say that a 1/16" square (on the bar) x 1/8" stretched mesh would be ideal?

1/8" x 1/4" would be considered too large?

Weight is a factor because you are dragging or swiping the net so many times? Correct?

What if the net was heavier than a Cummins (I found one today to look at) , but was balanced so that it helped dig itself in the substrate?

What if the heads were interchangeable with a cotter pin....each head having a different mesh, deeper bag or a different shape?

What is an ideal length of handle?
The Cummins had a 1" or 1-1/8" dia. What if the handle were slightly larger , say 1-1/4" to 1-1/2" dia.?

As for the shape of the net itself:

Square front no matter what, correct?

Is there a way to get a picture of a preferred shape? depth, flat bottom or conical, straight seamed so catch falls dead center ever time, etc, etc.

Is green color preferred or can the net be black?

I thoroughly understand the idea of a Pressure wave inside a net. Our trawls are all designed to eliviate this problem. So, what is the preferred mesh thread(thickness) Ace , Delta, heavy delta?

What about a netting that has 20% greated Specific gravity than the standard nylon netting? Less floating around, more sinking .

Frame material.
the Cummins had a 1/4" dia or less wire frame.
I've seen aluminum frames also.
Would there be any objections to a slightly heavier steel frame in a 5/16 or 3/8" rod?

Lastly, The Chafe Bar in the front.

Do you sample or catch fish by making the net frame dig into the substrate or just pull across it?


thank you for yor time and anyone else who wnats to chide in on this.
I am in no way trying to make a pefect net......I would never call anything that leaves here "perfect".
But I do have some frames we experimented with a few years ago for the crawfish famers and they were made to take a serious @$$ whipping!

I have access to numerous types of netting other than the catalog stock netting of Ace, Delta and Heavy Delta. I am wondering if some of this would work?

Thsi dip net discussion intrigues me ..... a lot.

Thank you all for any input

Excuse any redundancy, I just want to get my facts straight before I consider any venture into this.


sa va,
nm

Netmaker, I'm really not a good representative for a dipnet design. I hope other less vocal members express their thoughts on dipnet design.

If I were looking at a Dip Net for sampling YOY , it would be safe to say that a 1/16" square (on the bar) x 1/8" stretched mesh would be ideal?

I don't know what you mean by "on the bar" but personally I think 1/16" mesh would be suitable for all fishes.

I do think the 1/8" X 1/4" is too large. It fails to hold many Elassoma, Heterandria, Leptolucania and YOY fish.

I don't use the weight of the net to dig into substrate. Much of the substrate I sample is rocky and brute force is needed to do it right.
Interchangeable heads seems to be popular but I think I've only detached my perfect dipnet a few times. Cotter pin might not be best since pliers are required to install and remove them. A cotter pin is likely to snag surrounding nets.

I would like a 45" handle but I have no objections to existing handle lengths (I have both cummings and the perfect dipnet).
I think a larger diameter handle would be fine but not necessary for strength. On all new nets I add tennis racket grip tape to cushion and help grip. This modification requires regular attention since it falls off pretty quickly. I'm not sure if there is something that can be added permanently and at a low cost.

I like a flat leading edge (not round). Where the "hoop" attaches to handle isn't all that important to me. I will not buy a net with a rounded leading edge (where the net will contact the bottom). The Cummings hoop shape is alright but I would prefer an extra 3" on the chafe bar to handle dimension.

Is there a way to get a picture of a preferred shape? depth, flat bottom or conical, straight seamed so catch falls dead center ever time, etc, etc.

I'm not certain I understand this question. Are you talking about the shape of the bag?

I'm indifferent to black or green but I tend to stay away from white nets (both seine and dip). I honestly don't think it makes a huge amount of difference (I use white nets with friends all the time and we do pretty well).

I thoroughly understand the idea of a Pressure wave inside a net. Our trawls are all designed to eliviate this problem. So, what is the preferred mesh thread(thickness) Ace , Delta, heavy delta?

I need to do a bit more homework before I answer this. Do you have photos of the mesh you have available against a ruler or coin?

I'm not sure the specific gravity if the mesh material matters since the swipe is usually fast. I might also simply be ignorant of the importance of this.

As far as frame material...I personally think the Cummings frame rod diameter is fine (assuming the break that occurs where it contacts the wood handle is a design issue). Where the two tempered rods meet....I think a short piece of either flat stock or additional rod could be welded to reduce stress. On second thought, since the rods flex they will break in a different location away from the weld. OK I guess slightly beefier rod stock might help this but 5/16" rod is pretty heavy. I'm pretty concerned about weight

Dipnets are so versatile I use them for just about everything. I almost always work the net forward. In rocky areas where the rock size is above 3" I intentionally bang the net on the rocks with a rapid up and down motion on the handle. Where the rocks could be called gravel I usually work with a heavy hand and disturb the substrate. In semi-soft bottom without rocks, I try to disturb the bottom and in really soft bottom it's an effort to keep the silt out of the fine mesh perfect dipnet. In riffles I often use the dipnet like a small seine and "kick" into the net. I like to hit the bottom ahead of standing vegetation and move into the mass. In surface vegetation I'll try and hit the bottom and lift straight up capturing as much vegetation as possible. I'll even use the cummings net as a staff when negotiating treacherous substrates/conditions.

I just kind of skimmed all the answers, so my input is likely to mirror others'. The Cummings nets are OK, but I don't like them because they are heavy and the bag is not easily replaceable.

The monorail-type net (sold by Aquatic Ecosystems, and Jonah) is pretty much ideal. The bag has a rolled edge which fits inside a channel cut into the INSIDE of the aluminum frame. This protects it from abrasion and also make it very easy to just thread on a new bag if you tear the old one up. I keep two heads, each with different sized mesh: 1/16" for Heterandria, and 1/8" for other stuff. I used to use 1/4" mesh, and that was great for larger fishes, but a lot of stuff just slipped through the holes. I like to dye the mesh brown. I wear out a bag in about a year. The standard depth they ship is about right - I forget how deep it is. The 1/8 and 1/4 mesh is delta, I think. Wish I could get one in MOJI !!

The stock net/handle combination as it is shipped is not sturdy AT ALL; the frame is merely inserted into a lightweight aluminum handle and screwed into place. I use a heavy-duty yoke which they sell, which also allows me to change heads on the same pole (the head is secured with a simple pushbutton arrangement). I have never had the frame or yoke fail, and I am NOT gentle with my nets. For a pole, I use a fiberglass painters pole (6' collapsed, extends to 12'). I have seen a lot of aluminum poles fail, but my fiberglass one never has. I rarely, if ever, extend it - 6' is about as much as I ever need (sometimes too much). It's also bright yellow which makes it easy to see when I drop it into the water.

Yeah the front of the net needs to be flat for scraping the substrate. A round head is not useful in my opinion.

Going back to MOJI, I really, REALLY wish that stuff were available here. Now, THAT would make a perfect dipnet!

Anyway, the whole outfit is very sturdy and relatively light. An all aluminum handle in a shorter length would be lighter and more comfortable to use, but my outfit is bombproof and still comfortable. I also use it as a hiking staff when ascending/descending steep stream banks and navigating tricky bottoms, which I could not do with a flimsier handle.

Oh yeah, I like the shape of the bag, which is more or less box shaped. I would not want a conical bag.

...."Going back to MOJI, I really, REALLY wish that stuff were available here. Now, THAT would make a perfect dipnet!........"

Irate, If ONLY I could still get Moji in 400d 2.00 mm sq x sq.........you are right.....that would make the Ultimate Dip Net.
I still remember when that big ol' guy up at MN&T bet me he could tear it....he even put his size 13 boot on it and tried ripping it.....easy money....real easy money.......

You know...... I might just try again to see if my overseas colleagues would be willing to change their minds and export us enough for a few hundred nets..... You never know with all the changes in the world today.


Anyway, if someone could get me a weight on these different nets.........I would like to know what you all consider HEAVY and LIGHT ...and the what could be a compromise weight

All of this aimed at maybe designing a heavy useage net, with varying heads w/

• superior strength in the frame
• almost unbreakable frame, (40 lb. of weight at 60" extended straight out 180 degrees NO BREAKAGE)
• interchangeable heads
• a durable mesh
• ...and a cost of maybe 1/2 of a Duraframe or Smith net right now

Anyway.....

back to work. Just took an ice tea break..that Tilapia from lunch is still swimming!

nm

You know...... I might just try again to see if my overseas colleagues would be willing to change their minds and export us enough for a few hundred nets..... You never know with all the changes in the world today.

Please do! It's not like netting is a controlled substance or a threat to national security. I'm sure most people here have no idea what we are talking about. I have seen, and I believe.