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Shiner and Darter id help..

Started by Guest_bearskookums_* , Oct 21 2006 01:59 AM

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24 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_bearskookums_*

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Posted 21 October 2006 - 01:59 AM

hi can you all help me identify these two fish?
This darter...mostly 2 to 3 inches long...
and then I can't tell which shiner this is...most of them are around 2 inches and I think I have caught some 5 or 6 inches although I am not quite sure they are the same species...
thanks

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Dart.jpg 114.48KB 466 downloads

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#2 Guest_Brooklamprey_*

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Posted 21 October 2006 - 07:54 AM

Could you post a location for where these fish came from. It narrows things and makes it a bit easier to get a good ID without just a whole lot of Guessing.

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#3 Guest_bearskookums_*

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Posted 21 October 2006 - 01:53 PM

Hi Brooklamprey...I caught them in central missouri in a tiny creek...I think it runs off from moniteau creek...south west part of the missouri river...they wouldn't be topeka shiners would they? I also catch lots of longears/greensunfish/madtoms/stonerollers/top minnows/ and once I saw a nice log perch resting of all things on a log in the water thats how I saw it but I didnt have a seine net and regretted not getting one...and also saw a hogsucker in deeper water...thats also where I caught my biggest Greensunfish...around 7+ inches...mean looking one...mostly in the summer though...I went back during fall and there was nothing! :shock:

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#4 Guest_teleost_*

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Posted 21 October 2006 - 07:58 PM

Which county? Nearest city or drainage?

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#5 Guest_bearskookums_*

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Posted 21 October 2006 - 08:04 PM

Its in moniteau county, I am not sure but I think it would drain off Moniteau creek? This moniteau creek is where I caught some huge greensunfish somewhere around 7inches+....at least they are the biggest I have seen...before that I was living in Los angeles and fish a local city lake in the middle of downtown Los angeles and the biggest Greenie I caught there was around 5 inches...but I did catch an 8lb bass in that city lake...
The nearest big town would be California Missouri...

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#6 Guest_Brooklamprey_*

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Posted 21 October 2006 - 08:21 PM

Is the light stripe on the shiner an artifact left by the camara or was this pronounced in the fish? Also did it appear to have a dark band on the side as well as along the top of the fish?

Sorry I can't really help much on the darter.

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#7 Guest_bearskookums_*

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Posted 21 October 2006 - 08:25 PM

I think its like that on the shiner...when in the tank it looks just silverish...the darter is kinda hard to id cause when I first caught it the color was bright but when put in the tank its loses it color...I will dig up more photos of this species that I have caught in the past years and post them here...

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#8 Guest_teleost_*

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Posted 21 October 2006 - 08:29 PM

It's a good photo but I would put that fish in a dark container for 2 or more hours and take another photo. I'm guessing it was held in a white pail? If so, this can wash out natural colors of the fish.

That is one huge eye on that thing and quite the dorsal stripe. This will keep my busy for awhile :wink:

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#9 Guest_Brooklamprey_*

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Posted 21 October 2006 - 08:42 PM

Well on the shiner it is not a topeka as Teleost eluded the eye is much to large.
On that I'm guessing here that it is a Bigeye shiner Notropis boops. I'm not totally confident of this but it does fit distrubution as well as in a number of characteristics.

Interesting one I must say.......

Edit: this referece I have found wipes that one

maybe
http://mdc4.mdc.mo.g...aspx?id=0100138
Damn silvery things.......

For the record here is how to find the list of fishes that come up for the county
Goto:
http://mdc4.mdc.mo.g...is_Search1.aspx
Just go to county in the search and submit it

All fishes pop-up with the county as a point of distrubution

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#10 Guest_teleost_*

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Posted 21 October 2006 - 09:16 PM

I want it to be boops but boops isn't found naturally until the Gasconade. This would be out of range but certainly possible. Maybe I should look to see if it's know to be an introduction to that creek.

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#11 Guest_bearskookums_*

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Posted 21 October 2006 - 09:31 PM

heres some photos of fish I previously caught...

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Darter_Madtom.jpg 173.81KB 410 downloads

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#12 Guest_Brooklamprey_*

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Posted 21 October 2006 - 09:32 PM

Silverband???? Notropis shumardi

OK I officially have a headache........

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#13 Guest_bearskookums_*

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Posted 21 October 2006 - 09:34 PM

heres a photo of a big shiner around 6 - 7 inches...

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#14 Guest_bearskookums_*

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Posted 21 October 2006 - 09:37 PM

Here's a pic I found a while back of maybe the same type of shiner...and the other a top minnow....

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#15 Guest_teleost_*

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Posted 21 October 2006 - 09:50 PM

The "big shiner" looks like Striped shiner Luxilus chrysocephalus. Fishes of Missouri indicates this should be a common shiner creek though. The diving line is close.

The photo with smaller fishes looks like young striped shiner I gather locally and a different fish in the back left.

Just a guess.

Edit: The topminnow looks more like a young blackspotted topminnow rather than a blckstripe topminnow to me.

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#16 Guest_bearskookums_*

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Posted 21 October 2006 - 09:50 PM

here are some of the other fishes caught from this locale...can you tell which subspecies of Longear this is?

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Sun5.jpg 110.91KB 245 downloads
Sun2.jpg 106.71KB 245 downloads
Sun1.jpg 106.18KB 245 downloads

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#17 Guest_bearskookums_*

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Posted 21 October 2006 - 09:53 PM

This lil sunfish looked totally out of place when seen from the surface of the creek...it looked metallic blue...

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Sun4.jpg 93.72KB 246 downloads
Sun3.jpg 100.05KB 245 downloads

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#18 Guest_bearskookums_*

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Posted 21 October 2006 - 09:55 PM

lastly heres some of the big greenie...I was at first afraid the lil shiner was the topeka shiner but it didnt look like it...

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#19 Guest_teleost_*

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Posted 21 October 2006 - 10:01 PM

Nice photos!

Never before have I seen a longear with a red dorsal stripe. Do all or most of your fish have this?

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#20 Guest_bearskookums_*

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Posted 21 October 2006 - 10:05 PM

I am not but I think so...will have keep that in mind if I get to go back to that spot...but the longears are hard to find now...I only get to find them mostly around summer early early fall...too bad I have released most all of them back since my move...I now live in Kansas City...near a big lake(blue springs lake/fleming park)...but I dont know of any creeks that I can go to to catch natives....the natives I catch with hook and line is just bluegills...and greensunfish....weird that longears are so rare...