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Notropis?


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#21 Guest_itsme_*

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Posted 28 May 2008 - 11:39 AM

Yeah, I agree with Uland. It's all about experience. The longer you do it, the more you know. I does help to read the relevant texts so you know what the anatomical differences are between the species that inhabit the same waters. And just knowing what you would expect to find -- check the books for the known range of each species. The Peterson's guide is great because it has this kind of info for the entire country. But due to size restraints it has to gloss over many details. So getting a book or books that cover your area is very helpful. The Fishes of Tennessee is great because Tennessee has so many species it's liable to cover many species from your area even if you're not in Tennessee. It also has all the detail: color photos, dichotomous keys, range maps, natural history info. There are several state books that do the same. These books aren't cheap, but they're worth the money if you do much of this. Many of them are available from you local university library if not your public library. Some are even on line now. But the easiest way, is like Uland said, get out and sample, and if you go with someone who knows, and ask them, they can show you the ID tricks in the field. That's the best way.

#22 Guest_bpkeck_*

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Posted 29 May 2008 - 08:24 PM

I'd say the first one is a golden shiner... there seem to be way too many anal fin rays for it to be anything else. Just a juvie with nice midlateral stripe. The second one looks like a Cyprinella with nice diamond scales and head shape, but not any guesses beyond that. The Illinois Nnatural History Survey lists collections of Notemigonus from two Mackinaw tribs, one in 2000 (Buck Creek) and another from 1967 (Turkey Creek), not often, but they are there. INHS also only lists Cyprinella lutrensis from the Mackinaw in recent years... both C. whipplei and C. spiloptera are from decades and centuries ago respectively. But judging from the general collection records from the Mackinaw at INHS this might just be sampling bias... there are a few collections around 1900, then the 1960's, and then starting up in the late 1990's, but those are noticibly cyprinid depauperate, which means that the river doesn't have many minnows... or the samplers were a bit centrarchid, ictalurid, and percid oriented... I can't say I know all the people that were at INHS in the late 90's well, but at least one of them said he wouldn't touch a cyprinid until his midlife crisis.

The INHS comment is meant to poke fun at my advisor and not anyone else... just wanted to clarify so I don't come across as knocking INHS.

Edited by bpkeck, 29 May 2008 - 08:42 PM.


#23 Guest_ashtonmj_*

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Posted 29 May 2008 - 08:32 PM

I can't say much about the people at INHS in the late 90's, but at least one of them said he wouldn't touch a cyprinid until his midlife crisis.


Hilarious! and exactly how I feel.

I will agree with Brian (waaaay earlier) and Ben's recent diagnosis on the first fish being a juvie golden shiner. Interestingly when we collect them in any numberes a wide range of age classes aren't typically present. There is either alot of larger fish or immature.

#24 Guest_itsme_*

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Posted 29 May 2008 - 11:37 PM

Number two doesn't look like C lutrensis to me. The snout is too pointy. More like spiloptera and whipplei.

#25 Guest_natureman187_*

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Posted 29 May 2008 - 11:47 PM

Yeah, I agree with Uland. It's all about experience. The longer you do it, the more you know. I does help to read the relevant texts so you know what the anatomical differences are between the species that inhabit the same waters. And just knowing what you would expect to find -- check the books for the known range of each species. The Peterson's guide is great because it has this kind of info for the entire country. But due to size restraints it has to gloss over many details. So getting a book or books that cover your area is very helpful. The Fishes of Tennessee is great because Tennessee has so many species it's liable to cover many species from your area even if you're not in Tennessee. It also has all the detail: color photos, dichotomous keys, range maps, natural history info. There are several state books that do the same. These books aren't cheap, but they're worth the money if you do much of this. Many of them are available from you local university library if not your public library. Some are even on line now. But the easiest way, is like Uland said, get out and sample, and if you go with someone who knows, and ask them, they can show you the ID tricks in the field. That's the best way.


Thanks for the help guys! I do need something like that. I'll see what I can scrap up on amazon.
I'll be going back the mackinaw tributary in the near future. I'll be sure to pay more attention and bring back some pictures to maybe settle it.




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