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Hybrid fish game - Sunfish addition


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#1 Guest_fish for brains_*

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Posted 01 June 2008 - 10:43 AM

The Pond Boss forum is trying to figure out what this fish is:

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My guess was GSF X BG.

#2 Guest_itsme_*

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Posted 01 June 2008 - 11:55 AM

Can't wait to hear all the different theories. Really we need to see more of the fish out of the water or at least undistorted. My first guesses are longear or some combo of longear and pumpkinseed. The big "ear flap" with light border would steer one away from green sunfish and bluegill and toward longear, dollar and orangspotted. But it's too robust for orangepotted. The wide reticulations on the cheek and yellowish belly look kind of like pumpkinseed, but not strongly. It lacks the red spot that is usual on the "ear flap" of pumpkinseeds. So the strongest impression is longear to me.

#3 Guest_drewish_*

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Posted 01 June 2008 - 12:05 PM

Without good pictures and a location this discussion will go no further.

#4 Guest_choupique_*

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Posted 01 June 2008 - 12:10 PM

Looks like a pumpkinseed that is distorted by the water and sunlight might have affected colors in this picture. The ear does look different than a typical pumpkin. That is the only thing that looks slightly off to me.

Maybe up its family tree there was a hybrid and that trait passed to this fish making the ear look wrong? Maybe its just the light, angle and all that...

#5 Guest_fish for brains_*

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Posted 01 June 2008 - 12:10 PM

Western Washington most likely. I've posted a request for more photos on that forum.

#6 Guest_sandtiger_*

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Posted 01 June 2008 - 01:05 PM

Without good pictures and a location this discussion will go no further.


I have a feeling it might.

IMO the fish appears to be a pure pumpkinseed.

#7 Guest_itsme_*

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Posted 01 June 2008 - 04:10 PM

Western Washington most likely. I've posted a request for more photos on that forum.



If the fish was caught from waters of Washington state, chances are it is a pumpkinseed or something similar that was stocked. None of the sunfishes are native there, but several have been long ago naturalized. With this situation, the normal characteristics of a species can become skewed because of a small source genetic pool, isolation and inbreeding. Whatever unusual traits the original introductions had may become accentuated by inbreeding. Or maybe somebody got creative and stocked some longears just for fun :biggrin:

#8 Guest_fish for brains_*

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Posted 01 June 2008 - 07:47 PM

From the same pond. I guess this would be a Pumpkinseed would it not? Sure is pretty!

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#9 Guest_sandtiger_*

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Posted 01 June 2008 - 07:58 PM

Yeah, I'm sure thats just a pure pumpkinseed.

#10 Guest_fundulus_*

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Posted 01 June 2008 - 08:01 PM

The second picture looks much more like a longear than a pumpkinseed, with a somewhat extended opercular flap edged with white and no red. It's a somewhat odd longear at least compared to 'bama longears, but a longear.

#11 Guest_Irate Mormon_*

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Posted 01 June 2008 - 10:19 PM

Whats this?! NOW you guys are saying "That's no Hybrid" :-)

#12 Guest_itsme_*

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Posted 02 June 2008 - 12:13 AM

Wow, that's weird. Looks like a pumpkinseed, but not any pumpkinseed that I've seen before. Those vertical bands on the body that look like native american beadwork or something are typical pumpkinseed markings. If you can get a hold of a specimen, bend the pectoral fin forward against the eye of the fish. If it reaches the anterior (front) margin of the eye or beyond, that's pumpkinseed. If it's more rounded and does not reach the anterior margin of the eye, that's longear. Also check the ear flap. In pumpkinseed , it is bony almost to the posterior (rear) margin. In longear it is not bony, but thin, flexible skin. I suppose that won't help unless it gets relayed to the person who has access to the fish. Anyway, it's certainly an interesting specimen and has created some confusion here about it's identity. I think I'm falling back to the idea that it's from an isolated, inbred line of pumpkinseeds and so it looks weird.

#13 Guest_fish for brains_*

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Posted 02 June 2008 - 06:01 AM

The pond owner can catch these easily and I've asked him to do a little more research.

#14 Guest_centrarchid_*

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Posted 09 June 2008 - 10:10 AM

Without good pictures and a location this discussion will go no further.


Range maps meaning less every day as some fishes are being moved about. Western Washington source, if accurate, will reduce collection location as a defining character.

Otherwise IMO a pumpkinseed and a prime one at that.

#15 Guest_fishlvr_*

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Posted 09 June 2008 - 10:14 AM

I agree with the pseed ID. The second picture is an outstanding fish to say the least!

#16 Guest_choupique_*

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Posted 12 June 2008 - 02:44 PM

Second picture is a pumpkinseed too. They look like that out at the marsh very often. There is a speck of red on the "ear". I have not payed much attention to that marker anyways over the years, but find from time to time checking for it that some don't show it much.

#17 Guest_Bob_*

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 12:23 PM

Hi Ray. How've you been?

If anyone else but you said it, I'd have to disagree. Anyway, it doesn't look like the pumpkinseeds around here. Those have solid red on the opercular flap,

Just like this one on Britanica.com:

http://www.britannic...2Citems~checked

If you see them all the time, then maybe it's a variant that we don't have here.

From time to time, I used to get hybrids that I think were pumpkinseeds X green. That's what photo number two looks like to me.

Second picture is a pumpkinseed too. They look like that out at the marsh very often. There is a speck of red on the "ear". I have not payed much attention to that marker anyways over the years, but find from time to time checking for it that some don't show it much.



#18 Guest_centrarchid_*

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Posted 15 June 2008 - 08:45 PM

Does the east coast pumpkinseed typically look like that shown by the Britanica site? More elongate with different spotting pattern than most I have seen in what is now Mississippi River drainage or was connected to it in last 8,000 years.

#19 Guest_choupique_*

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Posted 17 June 2008 - 10:09 PM

Better than I should be Bob.

Well I would have to say the picture in Britannica is nothing like any pumpkinseeds I see around here. Although the ones over in the Lake Michigan drainage are different on average from the ones here in the Mississippi River drainage.

The picture on your link is very colorful. I often wondered when I read the pumpkinseed was the prettiest sunfish, when clearly the longear is going on what the average person sees in color. The one in your link certainly is colorful. Then again, longears were/maybe are called pumpkinseeds in some areas.

All that stuff aside. It is just that in that picture, it looks just like the pumpkinseeds I see all the time. Could be how the sun is hitting it and how the camera picked up the colors. I have a tough time getting blues to show up with my camera the way my eye sees them. They are dull to non existant, and even software to correct it doesn't help, albiet my software is cheap stuff. So maybe in that instance its just not picking up the red on the ear flap. I am going on the rest of the fish and ignoring that one small indicator - although it is a very good indicator of a pumpkinseed.

#20 Guest_fish for brains_*

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Posted 16 July 2008 - 09:00 PM

Another fish from the same pond:

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Pretty!




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