I've recently found 500-1000 tadpoles on the shallow shelfs in my garden pond. The only amphibs I ever see around here are Texas Toads, but I don't know the size of the tadpoles at hatch. The tadpoles in my pond are only about 1 mm in length. If I wanted to take a sample of them and aquarium raise them to see what they were, should I just start a greenwater culture to feed them?
Garden Pond - tadpoles
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Guest_benmor78_*
, Jun 25 2008 04:34 PM
16 replies to this topic
#2
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Posted 25 June 2008 - 04:51 PM
Tadpoles don't filter feed (well, some do, but none you're likely to encounter in Texas); they're grazers. You can offer boiled greens (any but iceberg lettuce), algae wafers, or aufwuchs-encrusted leaves and stones from ponds or streams. Stay on top of water changes and the tads should grow rapidly.
#3
Guest_nativeplanter_*
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Posted 25 June 2008 - 06:12 PM
Tadpoles also eat regular old fish flakes once they sink to the bottom. With glee, even!
#4
Guest_mander_*
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Posted 26 June 2008 - 05:15 AM
Does water depth matter like it does with fish fry?
Thanks
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#5
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Posted 26 June 2008 - 06:56 AM
If they were outside depth would matter a bit. As with fish fry, you don't want to boil them, but the warmer the temps, the faster they will develop. If its too shallow they are easy prey for predators, also. The frog and toad tadpoles I have kept are a bit less "delicate" than fry, and they can breath air to a degree so severe aeration is not necessarily required. As Newt said though, keep up with the water changes. They foul the water worse than goldfish!
I've kep the standard tadpoles from these parts (bullfrog, greenfrog, american toad, pickerel frog, and spring peepers and some larval eastern spotted newts once.)
I've kep the standard tadpoles from these parts (bullfrog, greenfrog, american toad, pickerel frog, and spring peepers and some larval eastern spotted newts once.)
#6
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Posted 26 June 2008 - 09:55 AM
To add to that, many tadpoles like to swim to the top to gulp air; in very deep water this may be difficult for them. I generally keep smaller tadpoles in 4-6" of water.
#7
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Posted 26 June 2008 - 02:59 PM
To add to that, many tadpoles like to swim to the top to gulp air; in very deep water this may be difficult for them. I generally keep smaller tadpoles in 4-6" of water.
Newt,
I recently treated a quarry with rotenone. Some sort of frog / toad promptly bred after toxin degraded and tapdoles are now pelagic and will go down as deep as 10 feet where they can are neutrally bouyant. Many seem to hang in water column for long periods of time and may in fact be feeding on some sort of plankton.
#8
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Posted 26 June 2008 - 03:04 PM
That is very interesting. Can you put up photos of the tadpoles?
The only tadpoles I routinely see in deep water (2 feet plus) are larger bullfrog and green frog larvae. I can't recall ever seeing tadpoles 10 feet down.
The only tadpoles I routinely see in deep water (2 feet plus) are larger bullfrog and green frog larvae. I can't recall ever seeing tadpoles 10 feet down.
#9
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Posted 26 June 2008 - 03:12 PM
That is very interesting. Can you put up photos of the tadpoles?
The only tadpoles I routinely see in deep water (2 feet plus) are larger bullfrog and green frog larvae. I can't recall ever seeing tadpoles 10 feet down.
I will see what I can do. Might even be able to do underwater photography.
#10
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Posted 27 June 2008 - 10:00 PM
Newt,
This is the type tadpole I am seeing in the quarry. They readily go deeper than 10 feet and some appear to be scraping off rocks at that depth as well. I have not heard or seen bull frogs but adult green frogs are present. If needed I can supply a more detailed image of mouth. Tadpole about 2 inches long.
DSC_0097.jpg 388.46KB
3 downloads
This is the type tadpole I am seeing in the quarry. They readily go deeper than 10 feet and some appear to be scraping off rocks at that depth as well. I have not heard or seen bull frogs but adult green frogs are present. If needed I can supply a more detailed image of mouth. Tadpole about 2 inches long.
DSC_0097.jpg 388.46KB
3 downloads
Edited by centrarchid, 27 June 2008 - 10:04 PM.
#11
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Posted 28 June 2008 - 12:28 PM
More images of same tadpole showing head and mouth parts.
tadpole_head_dorsal_uk.jpg 179.52KB
3 downloads
tadpole_head_lateral_uk.jpg 166.23KB
3 downloads
tadpole_head_ventral_uk.jpg 157.76KB
3 downloads
tadpole_head_dorsal_uk.jpg 179.52KB
3 downloads
tadpole_head_lateral_uk.jpg 166.23KB
3 downloads
tadpole_head_ventral_uk.jpg 157.76KB
3 downloads
#12
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Posted 29 June 2008 - 01:16 PM
Hmm, that's a tricky one. The clear, high-arched dorsal fin, relatively short tail, dense iridophores, and discrete dark punctulation all indicate bullfrog, but the dorsoventral compression and purplish color in the throat are more typical of green frog. The oral morphology of those two species is similar enough that I can't ID it based on the photo.
Unfortunately I don't have much of a handle on geographic variation in those two species.
Overall I'd lean towards it being an oddly (to me) colored Lithobates clamitans (Green Frog). I'm sure Ray Semlitsch at Mizzou could give you a more definite ID.
That is quite interesting that they are able to take advantage of the post-rotenone ecological release. Anuran dispersal in the water column is an under-studied system, though it's been looked at a bit in salamander larvae. I'm sure the Herpetological Review editors would be happy to publish a note on the phenomenon if you are willing to write one.
Unfortunately I don't have much of a handle on geographic variation in those two species.
Overall I'd lean towards it being an oddly (to me) colored Lithobates clamitans (Green Frog). I'm sure Ray Semlitsch at Mizzou could give you a more definite ID.
That is quite interesting that they are able to take advantage of the post-rotenone ecological release. Anuran dispersal in the water column is an under-studied system, though it's been looked at a bit in salamander larvae. I'm sure the Herpetological Review editors would be happy to publish a note on the phenomenon if you are willing to write one.
#13
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Posted 29 June 2008 - 01:39 PM
I used to regularly find Green and Bullfrog tadpoles beyond 5' and up to 10' deep in a pond in Ohio I used to take care of. I was using an AquaView camera to look for fish around structure I sunk and would see the tadpoles on or near the bottom and going up to the surface.
#14
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Posted 02 July 2008 - 01:43 PM
I don't know mouth morphology, but I'd put my money on green frog. That based on the fact that they are extremely versatile generalists which excel at colonizing habitat disturbed by humans. They may be one of the few amphibians to actually benifit from urban sprawl. They love those little drainage lagoons and landscape ponds that come with every new crop of McMansions. No fish and no competition from more sensitive frog species. I'd say they are more abundant now than when I was a kid.
The pelagic activity is most likely tadpoles resting on the thermocline. The cool water in the lower layer is considerably more dense than the warmer water above. Dense enough to support a resting tadpole. Also the thermocline tends to trap suspened algae [much to the regret of water plant operators during the fall turnover]. The tadpoles may actually be feeding on algae trapped at the interface of the two water densities.
The pelagic activity is most likely tadpoles resting on the thermocline. The cool water in the lower layer is considerably more dense than the warmer water above. Dense enough to support a resting tadpole. Also the thermocline tends to trap suspened algae [much to the regret of water plant operators during the fall turnover]. The tadpoles may actually be feeding on algae trapped at the interface of the two water densities.
#15
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Posted 02 July 2008 - 01:57 PM
The density gradient of the quarry is not a true thermocline and the tadpoles appear hover at a range of depths, therefore I do not think water density profile important. It is likely that plankton were concentrating in layers as larger cladocerans were at the top of the layer where the water appears red.
#16
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Posted 02 July 2008 - 02:28 PM
If the water is not stratifying, what are the layers you are discribing?
I'm not arguing for my suggestion that the tadpoles are resting on the theromcline, it was just a thought.
I'm just wondering what other types of layers would appear different colors and cause the daphnia to congregate in a specific place.
Thermocline involves a temperature and disolved oxygen gradient as well as density.
How deep is the quarry? Around here, ponds stratify around 10 - 20 feet in summer. Unless the water is moving, I'd expect a thermocline in any pond deeper than say, 15 feet.
No big deal, I'm no expert and I may have strayed too far off topic. I'm just curious.
I'm not arguing for my suggestion that the tadpoles are resting on the theromcline, it was just a thought.
I'm just wondering what other types of layers would appear different colors and cause the daphnia to congregate in a specific place.
Thermocline involves a temperature and disolved oxygen gradient as well as density.
How deep is the quarry? Around here, ponds stratify around 10 - 20 feet in summer. Unless the water is moving, I'd expect a thermocline in any pond deeper than say, 15 feet.
No big deal, I'm no expert and I may have strayed too far off topic. I'm just curious.
#17
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Posted 02 July 2008 - 05:18 PM
If the water is not stratifying, what are the layers you are discribing?
I'm not arguing for my suggestion that the tadpoles are resting on the theromcline, it was just a thought.
I'm just wondering what other types of layers would appear different colors and cause the daphnia to congregate in a specific place.
Thermocline involves a temperature and disolved oxygen gradient as well as density.
How deep is the quarry? Around here, ponds stratify around 10 - 20 feet in summer. Unless the water is moving, I'd expect a thermocline in any pond deeper than say, 15 feet.
No big deal, I'm no expert and I may have strayed too far off topic. I'm just curious.
The quarry is box-shaped in all dimensions of the water filled basin.
Temperature profile not sharp enough for stratification in this 15 foot quarry, even though very protected from the wind. CLose to 75% of bottom is 15 feet. Light penetration is to bottom and intense enough so I can see and read without acclimation.
Stratification I think is a function of phytoplankton and and zooplankton. It is hard to see stratification early in morning and late in evening but very pronounced during middle of day as vertical migrations segregate and desegregate the types. Color is largely a function of phytoplankton although the "daphnia" layer appears faintly rufus (reddish-brown) and they are dense enough you can feel them as you swim through. Their maybe a layer of phantom midge as well but they are much harder see despit their larger size.
Oxygen concentrations are not known at present but snails can be found at all depths. I could test with a dissolved oxygen meter.
Daphnia may be migrating to avoid perceived threat from fish as 6 adult redear and 6 adult pumpkinseed are now present. Fish density extremely low for 3/4 surface acre. Daphnia are probably grazing the phytoplankton down at their depth during the day making the water at thier depth and below appear clear. In other bodies of water with well developed fish populations I have similarly seen zooplankton take refuge at the thermocline which corresponded to low dissolved oxygen and reduced phytoplankton.
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