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Planning a brackish tank


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#1 Guest_Subcontrariety_*

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 09:20 AM

I’m planning on putting together a planted brackish aquarium in the next month or so.

-Tank: a ~30 gallon bowfront. 31” long, 10.5-15.5”wide, and 19” deep.

-Lighting: a 55W compact fluorescent T5 fixture using a kit from AH supply (not purchased yet).
-Substrate: combination of grey Turface (from Lesco) and black t-grade ColorQuartz (by 3M). Turface is used for athletic fields; its supposed to be similar to laterite. Colorquartz is ceramic-coated quartz for coloring concrete; a cheaper alternative to black sand. I’ll be adding some fertilizer to the mix as well. I plan to make the substrate 3-5” deep, both to provide plenty of room for growth, and to bring the plants closer to the light.

-Fish: not entirely sure yet. I’ll be getting most, if not all, from Sach’s aquaculture, since he’s only about 30 min from where I live. Based on his stock list, I’m thinking:
Poecilia latipinna - I have a pair in a pond outside, and they very happy – absolutely refuse to be caught. I could
collect a number of fry/juveniles from the pond and let them grow inside; it might be interesting to see how they
develop, considering the other posts about how they develop in groups with a dominant male. Otherwise, I could get
a new pair or group from Sach’s. These are really the only fish I have my heart set on.
Adinia xenica
Jordanella Floridae
Cyprinidon varigatus
Heterandria Formosa – I don’t know if these would fit in – I have an uneasy feeling that they would become dinner for some of the others

-Plants: watersprite, vals, hornwort, elodea, possibly java fern.

Couple of questions:
Will this light be sufficient for the plants I’ve listed?

Also, what temperature of bulb would be best? AH offers 5500K, 6700K, 7800K, 10000K, “Bright blue,” or “deep blue.” There's more information about the bulbs (and the fixtures) at ahsupply.com.

I know I need marine salt. Any recommendations for where to buy it? Is there a significant difference between the various brands?

Comments and suggestions are welcome.

Thanks,
Ashley

#2 Guest_butch_*

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 11:07 AM

Least killies and flagfish do better in freshwater than in brackish water.

Not sure about the rest of the plants but isn't they are 100% freshwater? Java fern could work out in brackish water.

Isn't that sheepshead minnow are aggressive? Im not expert on them.

#3 Guest_Newt_*

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 12:50 PM

I've heard vals tolerate brackish water. I would be leery of adding the others. Your lighting is a little on the low end, but vals and Java fern don't need a tremendous amount of light. Avoid the blue bulbs; 6500-10,000 K is the usual recommended range for plants. If you have a two-bulb fixture, one 6700 K and one 10,000 K looks nice.

#4 Guest_nativeplanter_*

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 12:50 PM

How saline will the tank be? Plant success will depend in part on that.

I've used Turface before. I wasn't pleased. It's very light and fluffy, and has a hard time keeping new plants anchored. Any species that roots around at the bottom will make a mess of it, too.

#5 Guest_topminnow_*

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 01:23 PM

I’m planning on putting together a planted brackish aquarium in the next month or so.


-Substrate: combination of grey Turface (from Lesco) and black t-grade ColorQuartz (by 3M).


I have no experience with the above material but I would suggest using a soil mix. I have not had any problems growing aquatic and emergents in 1.008 s.g. this way.

-Fish: not entirely sure yet.
Poecilia latipinna
Adinia xenica
Jordanella Floridae
Cyprinidon varigatus
Heterandria Formosa


IMO, I would not add H. formosa or J. floridae like butch mentioned. Also, you might want to choose between A. xenica and C. varigatus. Though I've had no experience keeping both together. L. parva would be an appropriate addition to your stock list.

-Plants: watersprite, vals, hornwort, elodea, possibly java fern.


Species listed will work fine though there are many other native and non natives which grow well in brackish aquariums.

Couple of questions:
-Lighting: a 55W compact fluorescent T5 fixture using a kit from AH supply (not purchased yet).
Will this light be sufficient for the plants I’ve listed?


Are you purchasing a 1x55w or a 2x55w kit? You might want to consider the 2x55w bright kit if your intentions are to create a lush planted aquarium.

Also, what temperature of bulb would be best? AH offers 5500K, 6700K, 7800K, 10000K, “Bright blue,” or “deep blue.” There's more information about the bulbs (and the fixtures) at ahsupply.com.


If you're purchasing a 1x55w bright kit, I would suggest either the 5500k or 6700k bulb. If you're purchasing a 2x55w bright kit, my choice would be a 5500k and 7800k from AHSUPPLY. My first choice however, would be a 5300k PL-L and a 8000k All-Glass bulb. Both of which are reccomned over AHSUPPLY bulbs.

I know I need marine salt. Any recommendations for where to buy it? Is there a significant difference between the various brands?


Your LFS should have marine salt in stock. Instant Ocean is a popular brand but others should work as well.

#6 Guest_Subcontrariety_*

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Posted 22 August 2008 - 10:54 AM

butch- all of the plants listed have been recommended for brackish water. I'm not sure how well the sheepheads would mix with others - need to do some more research.

newt- thanks for the suggestions.

nativeplanter- SG will be around 1.005-1.010. I've heard that complaint about turface before; I was planning on putting a layer of pure colorquartz on top to contain it. However, I was also planning on getting this setup put together faster than its coming together; since its going to take longer than I expected, I might be able to get some GA dirt - which is mainly clay - to put under the colorquartz instead. I would use my own, but its just dirty sand, and has a lot of pesticides etc in it.

topminnow- These plants are just to start with - I haven't worked with plants in an aquarium before, and these are some of the toughest ones, and most tolerant of brackish water. As far as the lighting, I was planning on using the existing fixture - a plastic box with a bulb on it that sits on top of the glass - with a 1x55W kit. However, further examination of it revealed that one end has been melted. Therefore, I think I'll go with the 2x55W kit and a diy enclosure.

-Ashley

#7 Guest_topminnow_*

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Posted 22 August 2008 - 02:42 PM

I might be able to get some GA dirt - which is mainly clay - to put under the colorquartz instead. I would use my own, but its just dirty sand, and has a lot of pesticides etc in it.


I would purchase a fertilizer free organic topsoil from a garden or home improvement center. Use the clay in conjunction with topsoil. Some mix it with the soil and others spread a thin layer across the bottom of the aquarium.

These plants are just to start with - I haven't worked with plants in an aquarium before, and these are some of the toughest ones, and most tolerant of brackish water.


Heres a list of other non-native aquatic plants which work well in brackish aquariums (thanks HDP).
http://aquaristik.bl...kwasser~3754057

I think I'll go with the 2x55W kit and a diy enclosure.


The 2x55w bright kit is an excellent choice. You'll be pleased with the results.

#8 Guest_mikez_*

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Posted 22 August 2008 - 03:30 PM

Why don't you just make it a hard, alkaline freshwater tank? One of the coral based commercial substrates designed for marine tanks should give you the calcium hardness and high pH. Just about every species you named can handle freshwater. It'd save you a bunch of money on sea salt and your plants would do much better.

#9 Guest_topminnow_*

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Posted 22 August 2008 - 06:01 PM

-Encouraging Ashley-

Why don't you just make it a hard, alkaline freshwater tank? Just about every species you named can handle freshwater.


Well, because then it would look like every other aquarium. I think some species would prefer some salt over pure fresh anywho. Though I also keep Poecilia strain, which need the addition of salt, mixed with various brackish natives.

It'd save you a bunch of money on sea salt and your plants would do much better.


I really don't spend much on sea salt and I'm poorer than you. Maybe your tanks are squeaky clean. I wouldn’t recommend many water changes in a brackish soil aquarium. I usually find my self fertilizing if anything and the plants grow well.

#10 Guest_Subcontrariety_*

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 02:07 PM

This plan got put on hold for a while - I ended up spending a year in South Africa, completely fishles

I have the 2x 55w bright kit, as well as bulbs and an enclosure, but haven't gotten it all put together yet.
I did get some GA dirt - its nice dark red clay. How deep should I make it under the black sand?

Updated stocking:
Poecilia latipinna
Adinia xenica
Lucania parva
Maybe Fundulus confluentus
And maybe some bumblebee gobies - I know they don't belong in a native tank, but I really like them. I'm not aware of peaceful native brackish bottomdwellers that stay reasonably small - suggestions are welcome.

Sach's has mollies and can get the various killifish for me.

Plants:
Java fern
Vals
Watersprite
Elodea
Probably some anubias of some kind
Maybe dwarf hairgrass - except that I've read that it is a debris magnet
Java moss

I'd like to keep some ghost shrimp in this tank as well - I don't know if that's feasible or not.

Comments and suggestions are appreciated.
Thanks!
Ashley Compaan

#11 Guest_Newt_*

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 08:18 AM

There are a number of native gobies and blennies, some of which stay quite small. I've been catching a few out here in Ocracoke, NC, but haven't ID'ed them yet. There are also little flatfishes such as hogchokers and tongue soles that might work. I don't know of a commercial source for any of these, but you might be able to go out and catch some on your own or get them on the trading dock.

Ghost shrimp would probably work in your tank once you have some dense plant growth or other structure. I don't think the mollies or small killies are agressive enough to kill adult shrimp, at least not efficiently enough to wipe out a decent population. Go out and get some brackish Palaemonetes species rather than the common petstore P. paludosus. They're virtually identical but will do better in your tank conditions. They are often densely abundant in seagrass beds and around jetties or other structure. I think Sach's carries at least one species too.

#12 Guest_Kanus_*

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 09:38 PM

There are also little flatfishes such as hogchokers and tongue soles that might work. I don't know of a commercial source for any of these, but you might be able to go out and catch some on your own or get them on the trading dock.

Most any "freshwater flounder" which you might see in an aquarium shop (sometimes they are pretty common) is a hogchoker. It's not the same as catching one yourself, but if you happen to see one, it IS a native species.



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