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Big South Fork


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#1 Guest_truf_*

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Posted 31 August 2008 - 01:26 PM

Hey everyone,
I'll be going hiking/camping in the Big South Fork area near the border of KY and NE TN in a few weeks. I'm hoping to do a little sampling there as well. What interesting species can I reasonably hope to find in this area? Any advice would be appreciated.

-Thom

#2 Guest_ashtonmj_*

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Posted 31 August 2008 - 01:34 PM

In the National Rec Area?

#3 Michael Wolfe

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Posted 31 August 2008 - 08:56 PM

Hey everyone,
I'll be going hiking/camping in the Big South Fork area near the border of KY and NE TN in a few weeks. I'm hoping to do a little sampling there as well. What interesting species can I reasonably hope to find in this area? Any advice would be appreciated.

-Thom


That's where my bluebreast darters came form... there is another thread somewhere on the forum regarding the trip we took and a bunch of photos that I think Uland posted...
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

#4 Guest_truf_*

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Posted 31 August 2008 - 11:30 PM

In the National Rec Area?

Haven't hammered out the particulars as of yet.

#5 Guest_fundulus_*

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 09:44 AM

The managers of this Recreational Area are very nudgy about any kind of collecting on the property, even for research purposes it's difficult to get permission. Also, the Tennessee Gazetteer mapbook is poor about showing accurate roads in this area, beware.

#6 Guest_ashtonmj_*

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 11:54 AM

That's kind of what I was hinting at with the "in the rec area?" Steve Bakawitcz (however you spell it) is a very watchful and protective manager of the aquatic fauna in park. Interestingly, it flat out says fishing regulations follows the state laws that you are in, but the harming and removing of wildlife policy is strictly adhered to. They're wise to the fact you aren't out to collect bait, and if you aren't keeping anything than you aren't collecting bait, now are you?

#7 Guest_truf_*

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 12:13 PM

Thanks guys,
Boy, It seems like everywhere I've gone this year is a no no!
As I'm not yet sure of the exact location I'll be staying, let me know where to avoid collecting. Also, let me know where nearby in the area I can go (if you know). What boundaries should I avoid, ie: Daniel Boone National Forest, Big South Fork Rec. Area, etc.... I understand that there are some sensitive species in the area, and I'll have to bone up on their identification. I'll be kind of all over down there for a few days, so any good creeks reasonably close would be great.
-Thanks,
Thom

#8 Guest_JohnO_*

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 12:54 PM

Thom:

I was just researching the KY regulations regarding collecting darters. The regs do not specifically mention darters, one way or another. As far as I can tell, they fall under the category of baitfish. (doesn't that conjure up an unpleasant mental image?) Restriction is no endangered species, no juvenile gamefish, and no more than 500 (*sigh*) can be held at one time. Also, you do need a regular KY fishing license to collect baitfish.

You might want to read the regs yourself and see what you can divine, there's a link to them on the states section of this board.

Collecting? I've had no problems in D Boone Nat. Forest at all. In fact, I believe the reason I've found such great diversity in the N Fork of the Red River is that it runs right through the forest, and you can get into it for pretty much it's entire length. Same holds true for the middle fork that comes out of Nat Bridge state park, but as I probably mentioned, it was pretty dirty below the dam.

The S fork Red River and other smaller streams are mostly over private land. I had some success stopping at local stores or catching a farmer on their tractor on the road, asking were a fellow might grab a few minnows out of a creek. It helps to have a big truck full of firewood with a KY Farm license plate, sort of a one working stiff to another thing. I've also found that if you see a church with a parking lot adjacent to a stream, no one seems to mind if you head over with a bucket and dip net, though you might want to look up the minister first.

Species information can be found here:

http://fw.ky.gov/kfw...mp;NavPath=C267

It's the most up to date source of what's endangered and what isn't. They don't sort by location, but there is a page of just endangered species, each has a listing of it's range. The photos aren't complete, so scrutinize what you find. Turns out what I thought was a funny looking greenside was actually an emerald darter. Fortunately, it wasn't on the endangered list.

Drop me a PM if you stop in the gorge or Cumberland river area, I can meet up with you if it's on a weekend. Got a GPS mapper in my truck, and it shows streams as well as roads, great for finding new streams.

--John

#9 Guest_farmertodd_*

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 08:25 PM

Do NOT screw around in the Big South Fork. If you have any kind of net, do not have a bucket, and have your fishing license READY. We had our ducks in a row (so we thought) with permission and permits from KY, TN and the Feds, and still ended up with an entanglement with the law.

Now, there's a way to enjoy the resource without getting yourself in trouble.... No one pitches a fit when you snorkel. Temps were within reason last mid-Oct in a 3 mil wetsuit, even without a hoodie.

If you're on the KY side, head to Blue Heron. If in TN, head to Leatherwood Ford.

You will easily see bloodfin, bluebreast, tippecanoe, banded and greenside within the riffles, emerald darter below in slow current, and channel and ashy darter around in deep pools that would be fast flowing during high water. A rare sighting, although not out of the question would be an olive darter.

You will also easily see a wide variety of cyprinids, hosts of hogsucker and redhorse, and all that business. We watched smallmouth bass guard hogsucker from one another as the hogsucker fed.

I highly recommend doing this if there. If I have a single regret from our trip last year (well, besides that part about the Law :) ), it was failing to interview Uland before and after he put his head under that water. He was apprehensive, but I could hear the hollerin' under the water in a 5 knot riffle once he went under and came back up lol.

Don't shy away, it's one of the most beautiful areas east of the Mississippi, take time to hike and look at the arches and falls. Just be smart about your activities. Mcreary County is the only county which David Etiner has been arrested, and we almost followed suit. They don't mess around there ;)

Todd

#10 Guest_ashtonmj_*

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 08:31 PM

Thank you for chiming in Todd. I never went there, and there is a reason why.

#11 Guest_truf_*

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Posted 11 September 2008 - 07:52 PM

Can I assume that as long as I stay outside the boundaries of the Big South Fork park, and as long as I have the proper fishing licenses, I'll be OK to collect bait? If these are OK, can anyone please suggest any good spots nearby?

#12 Guest_truf_*

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Posted 05 November 2008 - 10:10 PM

I just realized I never updated this thread. Sorry.
Due to my paranoia about collecting here, I hardly got a chance to sample. The last hour or so of the last day I got wet twice for about 15 minutes each. I caught some Gilt Darters in one location, and 3 White Tail Shiners in another. That was the extent of it.

#13 Guest_jblaylock_*

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Posted 27 January 2009 - 07:59 PM

I don't understand why people are getting in trouble in this area. If the park rules in KY say that the park follows the rules of the state, why are people getting in trouble? If KY law states that it's ok to collect 'bait', what's the problem.

I would like to collect in this area, but I'm not going to jail over a darter. Those of you that have had run-ins with law enforcement, what did they say/do?

#14 Guest_fundulus_*

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Posted 27 January 2009 - 08:44 PM

If you're in the Big South Fork National River & Recreation Area, that's 125,000 acres of federal land in TN & KY managed by the National Park Service. They have the right to regulate fishing and hunting activities and believe me, they do. Kentucky state lands are another story with which I'm not familiar.

#15 Guest_JohnO_*

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 01:57 PM

NPS regulates D Boone National Forest (Red River Gorge), and I haven't had even the slightest problem getting fish there.

I only go over that area with a dip net, though. There's something about a seine that draws a lot of attention.

#16 Guest_ashtonmj_*

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 02:51 PM

USDA is in charge of Daniel Boone National Forest.

#17 Guest_truf_*

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 06:31 PM

NPS regulates D Boone National Forest (Red River Gorge), and I haven't had even the slightest problem getting fish there.

I only go over that area with a dip net, though. There's something about a seine that draws a lot of attention.

The Red River Gorge is a separate entity within the Daniel Boone National Forest. DBNF stretches for many moons walk....all the way through TN, the RRG is but a small portion of that. They probably have different rules governing them, so they probably have separate enforcement jurisdictions. Without my Tennessee Gazeteer handy, I cannot remember if The Big South Fork is also within the boundaries of The Daniel Boone National Forest.
-Thom

#18 Guest_Newt_*

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 06:48 PM

Daniel Boone NF is entirely within KY. Big South Fork is physically and administratively separate and lies across the border of both states. The only National Forest in Tennessee is the Cherokee, which is in two sections, both in the Blue Ridge (one north and one south of the Smokies) well east of the area under discussion. Land Between the Lakes in the Western Highland Rim is also administered by National Forest Service/USDA and crosses the TN/KY border.

#19 Guest_truf_*

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 06:53 PM

Daniel Boone NF is entirely within KY. Big South Fork is physically and administratively separate and lies across the border of both states. The only National Forest in Tennessee is the Cherokee, which is in two sections, both in the Blue Ridge (one north and one south of the Smokies) well east of the area under discussion. Land Between the Lakes in the Western Highland Rim is also administered by National Forest Service/USDA and crosses the TN/KY border.

Ah! I stand corrected. I was relying on my faulty memory.

#20 Guest_JohnO_*

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Posted 07 February 2009 - 10:28 AM

Could be, but I do know the RRG is patrolled by park rangers.

However, it works, collection has never been a problem there.



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