just got started?

Ok the fish are in the tank i added water conditioner
and the salt, bio boost its been 56 hours and the water

#1-is starting to cloud up is this normal?

#2 some of my bait has black pepper looking spots in fins and tail

#3 one fish has RED GROWTH ON EDGE OF FIN about the size of a grain of rice

ok let the flaming begin. lol
no realy i just got started ive been keeping them in a ice cooler all week
and fishing with then on the week end but some were just to cool
so i started bring one or two back and so on now i own a tank

Yes the cloud up is normal; it sounds as though you put alot of fish into a large tank that was not established or cycled. You can throw in all the conditioner you want but it's going to struggle to keep up with a heavy bioload (poop). I'd do some minor but frequent water changes. There are at least 12 sunfish in the tank and from the looks of it one filter likely rated to cover your tank size. The number and size of your fish is too much for your filtration to handle, possibly even too much for the tank without more filtration. A 6" bluegill puts out quite a bit of waste. Perhaps add a sponge filter. They are cheap and can tie into your preexisting air stone to provide aeration along with filtration. The black spotting is a parasite, a schzistomiazan (spelling?) of some sort I believe.

Why not just reuse your fish the next time you go fishing rather than accumulating fish by not using your remnants? Kudos for not dumping your unused bait in the waterway you've fished.

You are gonna have a problem - that's a lot of fish in an uncycled tank. See if you can get some Ammo-lock or something to stave off disaster.

Welcome to the Forum. Glad you got intrigued by your baitfish. ashtonmj is right. You need to address the crowding situation immediately or that tank will crash in any number of ways: Mostly likely, the fish will quickly become stressed do to excess ammonia and warm temps. The minnows will die first. The sunfish will gradually decline and become ill if they can survive the high ammonia. I don't mean to be bossy, but the situation is critical. You need to take at least 60% of those fish out of that tank immediately. Put them in bags in your freezer to use as bait or plant them in your yard as compost. No, I'm not kidding. They are going to die, guaranteed, if you leave them all in that tank. If you have to witness that carnage, you will likely be soured on fish keeping. Better to get it done, like ripping off a bandaid, then drawing out the agony. I'm not kidding... oh yeah, I already said that I would recommend doing large water changes (with water conditioner) on an every-other-day basis for while. Hard to say unless you get a water test kit to monitor ammonia and nitrite. Usually you can tell, by closely and regularly observing the fish, whether they are stressed and need a water change. Don't feed or feed minimally until you can get the water quality under control. Sounds cruel, but large fish can take that just fine. In the meantime, read this article: http://jonahsaquariu.../aquabasics.htm

Looks like you at least have bluegill, green sunfish and one or more longear sunfish. Can't really tell the shiners. Maybe spotfin shiners or common or striped shiners. If you tell us exactly where you caught them (town, county, river, state), we can make better guesses.

Hope it all works out for you. If they die, just clean out the tank and start with a few fish for a month or so until things stabilize. Really, it's the only way to do it with any consistent success.

Hey Tony.

I have read all the replies here and all I can say is Well said up there. The only thing I think I can add is that some cover (sometimes lots of cover) is very good for the fishes health and protection from bullies. Somone may have said this but I missed it if they did. A good piece of drift wood, Plastic plants. Large rocks to form caves and such.

I say plastic plants only because of my non existent green thumb. I just find that they do not die as easily and they are easier to add in a pinch, as right now for you. Maybe I will photograph one of my tanks and send you a message to show you what I mean.

I wish you plenty of success. Its fun. And like itsme has said he sees at least one green sunfish and one long ear. I think a little reading on which fishes can stand each other would be in order for you also. Meaning a green sunfish will back down and tear up a fish almost twice its size. Also I find that long ears tend to be eye nippers. I have read this also. I had one in with a beautiful warmouth I had, and my warmouths eyes became cloudy. I removed the long ear and in not much time at all the warmouths eyes cleared right up. I am not a proffesional like itsme and ashtonmj , but I have been around for a while and this is my non proffesional but hard learned experiences.

Eddited here to add: I believe it was itsme that said kudos for not letting your bait fish into the waterways that you fish in. Well that also goes for keeping wild caught fish. Even if you let them go into the same place you caught them in that is a very discouraged practice because they can pick up parsites and such in a enclosed environment "aquarium" and you run a risk of introducing these said parsites into you local waterways and risk infecting the local fish in those said waterways. So what itsme said may seem cruel it is the best option. Don't tell anyone, but I kill my unwanted fish humanly and my cats love them. But as itsme said they do make good compost for the garden also.
Daniel J. Benoit / AKA nativecajun

Edited by nativecajun, 17 September 2008 - 09:29 AM.

I have to echo what others have said about overcrowding. I would also like to recommend a product by SeaChem called Stability. I have used it successfully to establish both salt and freshwater tanks. I have been able to add fish immediately to new tanks and have experienced no losses. However, the bio load you have in that tank will never be successful without reducing dramatically the fish count.

I've seen tanks that are way, way overstocked the way your's is. But they are at the local fish store and the owner is a professional. Five times the rated filtration, good water biology etc. I couldn't do it, and would not try.

Where I live, So. Cal. USA, there are lots of people who would gratefully take Bluegill off my hands to stock their outdoor ponds and aquariums. Maybe you can go that route?

Also, at least 25% water changes every day, along with adding some gravel and lots of fake plants for the bacteria to collect on. Stay away from rocks and driftwood. Takes up too much precious water space in that little tank. Just my opinion.

I thought I'd chime in on the "Stability" product, and let you know that it works very well. Tetra's new "Safe Start" is also good, but Stability is cheaper and easier to find. It will fix your problems in a few days. Why wait for your bacteria to grow when instead you can just add them manually?
Unlike most other bacteria-in-a-bottle products, Stability actually works and contains Nitrospira instead of a blend of who-knows-what else , and it works in days instead of weeks. I use it all the time and couldn't imagine NOT using it anymore now that I've seen the results. It wasn't really made for handling emergencies like yours, but it sure handles them.

I did not see the edit button on my original post here. I just wanted to add a photo. That is a 55 gallon by the looks of it and I just wanted to agree to disagree with the wood thingy. There is in my opinon lots of room for driftwood in a 55. I think a piece or drift wood or some sort of barrier that fish can swim around when they feel threatened from within the tank or from without would be very benificial to them. But all people do not think like me so what ever the case I do hope your native fish keeping experience is a positive one. I will insert a photo of my forty breeder. Now no ribbing here, I have angel fish in it right now with two botias and a tadepole madtom. I just think of what fish have in the wild and add it to my aquarium. I think angel fish would have all these options in the wild.

Kind Regards,
Daniel / AKA nativecajun

Eddited to say: In my photo gallery you can see two grass pickerel that I used to have in this tank. I had the same (plastic wood) and plants. There were times that I had to look very hard to find the second grass pickerel. I do think it adds greatly to their stress reduction and health in general. Enjoy. And spelling corrections.

Edited by nativecajun, 18 September 2008 - 09:48 AM.

OK I WILL REMOVE MOST OF THE FISH.
thanks for the help.
i realy needed this site.

OK I WILL REMOVE MOST OF THE FISH.
thanks for the help.
i realy needed this site.

i'm down to about 2 pounds of fish now in a 55gal. tank from about 5 pounds maybe of fish
2 shiners
2 pumpkin seeds 1@3" 1@4"
2 gold fish 4"
1 sucker 4"
1 big green sunfish about 5-6"
4 small green sunfish 2"-4"
1 blue gill sunfish 3"

will post pic's later for id later if they live

so it is harder to keep fish long term inside the house
then say your garage in a 55 gallon drum
ive kept fish for weeks this way 20 to 80 pieces @ a time
all i ever did was add salt and shad saver to the water
plus two maybe three drops of hydrogen peroxide.

so it is harder to keep fish long term inside the house
then say your garage in a 55 gallon drum
ive kept fish for weeks this way 20 to 80 pieces @ a time
all i ever did was add salt and shad saver to the water
plus two maybe three drops of hydrogen peroxide.

That's an interesting question. Could be temperature related. If it's cooler in the garage, that would help. Naturally, your house is room temp all the time. Also the lights and lid on the tank as well as filters generate and retain heat in the water. Heat is a problem for a lot of reasons: Fish are cold blooded and it raises their metabolism, waste production and oxygen needs. At the same time, warmer water is physically less capable of holding dissolved oxygen (what fish breath). Heat also promotes the rapid growth of bacteria, which might be good in the long run, but in a new setup can be another oxygen sink and waste source. Heat also makes the fish more aggressive, more stressed and more likely to injure one another.

Don't know what's in shad saver, but it may have something that binds ammonia and maintains water quality from that point of view. Kind of like the ammo-lock or other products that you could use on your new setup to manage ammonia until the bacteria colonize your filters. These products bind chemically with ammonia from fish waste, making it temporarily non-toxic to the fishes.

Also just keeping the fish in a dark or dim light helps because they are calmer and less active. See the above remark about metabolism, etc.

That's an interesting question. Could be temperature related. If it's cooler in the garage, that would help. Naturally, your house is room temp all the time. Also the lights and lid on the tank as well as filters generate and retain heat in the water. Heat is a problem for a lot of reasons: Fish are cold blooded and it raises their metabolism, waste production and oxygen needs. At the same time, warmer water is physically less capable of holding dissolved oxygen (what fish breath). Heat also promotes the rapid growth of bacteria, which might be good in the long run, but in a new setup can be another oxygen sink and waste source. Heat also makes the fish more aggressive, more stressed and more likely to injure one another.

Don't know what's in shad saver, but it may have something that binds ammonia and maintains water quality from that point of view. Kind of like the ammo-lock or other products that you could use on your new setup to manage ammonia until the bacteria colonize your filters. These products bind chemically with ammonia from fish waste, making it temporarily non-toxic to the fishes.

Also just keeping the fish in a dark or dim light helps because they are calmer and less active. See the above remark about metabolism, etc.

here is there link if you would to know more. i must say it does work.
thanks for the help

http://www.sure-life...HAD_KEEPER.html

Edited by CATfishTONY, 19 September 2008 - 04:40 AM.

It's been 9 days now
55gal, tank inside the house
I must say this is easier then keeping shad alive for
3 to 10 days to fish with.
Thanks to all, the replies
And help on this new tank.
Brilliant color is back in longears.
Due to removing large 5" green sunfish.
Biomass has been removed from gravel with
hose, 20 gal. every other day.
Fish look okay to me.