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Need a couple ID's

Started by Guest_fishlvr_* , Nov 02 2008 08:36 AM

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11 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_fishlvr_*

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 08:36 AM

Can someone tell me what these are? The first one was found in a nearby creek (Flint River drainage) and the other in a pond near a friends house.

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#2 Guest_UncleWillie_*

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 09:17 AM

The first one I don't know, but your second picture looks like bushy pondweed(southern naiad) to me (Najas guadalupensis?). I have seen something like the first plant before, but it was not submerged. It started growing land, then creeped down into the water and would be underwater after large rains - so I don't think that is the same plant I know. Sorry, Good luck.

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#3 Guest_rjmtx_*

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 09:17 AM

The top is pennywort, and I think the bottom pic is Bladderwort.

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#4 Guest_nativeplanter_*

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 09:29 AM

The first is a species of Hydrocotyle, either verticillata or umbellata. It isn't really a submerged plant, but can do well if you let it float on the surface.

The second looks like a Uricularia, probably minor or purpurea. Hard to tell by the photo. I say Utricularia because it looks like there are little traps, but it's hard to see. Look at some photos on the web and see if that's what it is.

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#5 Guest_rjmtx_*

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 10:22 AM

The pennywort, while an emergent plant, can, and does, grow submerged. We have spring runs covered in the stuff that never reaches the air because flows are so high. Maybe because high flows allow increased CO2 uptake.(?) I don't know. Anyway, mine is growing great submerged in a 5 gal with 18W of light over it. I also made sure to pull a submerged mat out of the stream to make the crossover easier (no immediate leaf die off and whatnot). I left the roots mostly exposed thinking there might be fewer troubles if water could freely flow around them. The Elassoma love the roots, too.

So, if you want to try it submerged, you might want to pull it up out of the substrate a little more. I'm no plant expert, but that's what I'd do with it.

Edited by rjmtx, 02 November 2008 - 10:25 AM.

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#6 Guest_fishlvr_*

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 12:51 PM

I think I saw a picture of a pickerel with pennywort in it in North American Aquarium Fishes, so I assumed it was submerged. I've seen several similar looking plants around my house as well.

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#7 Guest_fishlvr_*

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 01:12 PM

Are these the "traps" (note: these pics were taken from above, just to let you know in case the water may have distorted the plant)?

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#8 Guest_nativeplanter_*

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 06:47 PM

Yes, those are the traps.

True, Hydrocotyle species can be grown submerged, but they seem to need a whole lot of light (such as in your setup, rjmtx), and I wonder if the ones we see photos of have supplemental CO2. The ones that I have seen submergegd outside are adjacent to emergent stems. These are connected by rhizomes that are able to move the CO2 around from the emergent plant to the submerged ones. So true, it can be done. But it doesn't seem to be as easy as growing other technically emergent plants underwater.

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#9 Guest_fishlvr_*

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 06:51 PM

What do you need to be able to tell if it's U. purpurea or U. minor?

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#10 Guest_nativeplanter_*

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 07:35 PM

What do you need to be able to tell if it's U. purpurea or U. minor?

Well, the easiest is that purpurea has pruple flowers and minor has yellow. Other than that, I'd have to look in Godfrey & Wooten, which is in my office. I can try to remember to look in the next couple days. There are vegetative differences, but they both have a loose, wispy look as compared to other species.

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#11 Guest_fishlvr_*

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 07:38 PM

Ok. Thanks. Just let me know what characteristics to look for (if any other than the flowers) and I'll look for them.

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#12 Guest_rjmtx_*

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 07:47 PM

Yes, those are the traps.

True, Hydrocotyle species can be grown submerged, but they seem to need a whole lot of light (such as in your setup, rjmtx), and I wonder if the ones we see photos of have supplemental CO2. The ones that I have seen submergegd outside are adjacent to emergent stems. These are connected by rhizomes that are able to move the CO2 around from the emergent plant to the submerged ones. So true, it can be done. But it doesn't seem to be as easy as growing other technically emergent plants underwater.

From what I know about nutrient uptake, faster water = faster uptake, which mimics conditions in air. So, I think it's a function of water velocity and light that makes submersion possible. The pennywort in my tank grows tall with small leaves, but I'm guessing I could change that if I added more flow to the tank. It would be an interesting thing to play around with...

There are fully submerged mats all over the spring run I pulled mine from, but it has to be due to the spring that's pumping 200-300 million gallons a day directly above it. Other creeks I frequent only have it growing on the margins.

Anyway, good luck with the plants and keep us updated on how they are doing in your tank.