lighting a planted 90G

Hello, I searched thru some older posts and cant really find an answer, I posed this same question on tropical forum and basically was told it wont work, but then again many of them seem to follow the main stream and not willing to experiment with other options. I have a 90G i am setting up for Natives, I have built the stand myself and am going to be building the hood, I want good lighting but I am also cheap...lol, I found T5 NO lighting fixtures at Lowes for $30, I figured these matched with some decent 6500K rated bulbs would suffice to grow happy plants, but then the watts per gallon rule comes into play and with T5NO i am still way under the recommended WPG. Any advice for good lighting on a budget?

I wouldn't be considered anywhere close to an expert so this is worth what you paid for it...

Plants will "live" with "decent" lighting
... will "grow" with "good" lighting
... will "thrive" with "excellent" lighting

I use plants in the generic term. It really depends on which species you are working with.

What exactly do you want? Do you just want them to live? One thing you want to pay attention to is lumens. The more efficient (read: expensive) lighting will have more lumens per watt.

I wouldn't be considered anywhere close to an expert so this is worth what you paid for it...

Plants will "live" with "decent" lighting
... will "grow" with "good" lighting
... will "thrive" with "excellent" lighting

I use plants in the generic term. It really depends on which species you are working with.

What exactly do you want? Do you just want them to live? One thing you want to pay attention to is lumens. The more efficient (read: expensive) lighting will have more lumens per watt.

I am looking for them to be able to grow and spread over time..most of my tanks have some plants but they get enough light to live and I dont use any CO2. Which I will probably have to use on this tank, as for species I cant really say since I am going to try to collect them locally for this tank.

My advice would be to use what you have found if there will be room later to add additional bulbs. How many bulbs are you planning right now?

The WPG rule is very vauge guidance. If you have a particularly tall tank, you will need more. If very short, you will need less. With all the new types of fluorescent lighting, wattage is meaning less and less. Like Drew said, look at the lumens. I don't know what exactly would suffice for your tank (I've never had one that big!). If you will be disassembling the fixture to put the caps in your hood, you will be able to rearrange them later if you need to add additional bulbs. I have done this successfully with homemade 55-gallon hoods. If you put the ballast outside the hood (such as on the back), it will keep things cooler, too.

I don't think you will need CO2 just because the tank is larger. Using it can make plants grow like gangbusters, yes, but in my world that just makes for more maintenance.

I'm jealous that you get to plant such a large tank!

Hello, I searched thru some older posts and cant really find an answer, I posed this same question on tropical forum and basically was told it wont work, but then again many of them seem to follow the main stream and not willing to experiment with other options. I have a 90G i am setting up for Natives, I have built the stand myself and am going to be building the hood, I want good lighting but I am also cheap...lol, I found T5 NO lighting fixtures at Lowes for $30, I figured these matched with some decent 6500K rated bulbs would suffice to grow happy plants, but then the watts per gallon rule comes into play and with T5NO i am still way under the recommended WPG. Any advice for good lighting on a budget?

I use 4 36" T5 bulbs on my planted 125 - I think it's 156 watts total? I forget. I think my tank is about as deep as a 90. If I had any more lighting, I think I have a lot of problems with algae. I just use some plain white bulbs. Actually, if I put in the "plant bulbs" I bought with the fixtures, I get *tons* of algae so I just stick with the white bulbs. I've got a range of different plants in there, from java fern to crypts to large swords and lilies and pretty much everything does well. The only sort of plant I don't have any luck with are the fussier foreground plants and I think that's just because they get shaded out by the larger plants. If you wanted to add CO2, you'd probably need more light than this to keep up with the plants' increase metabolisms, but if you're going to do low tech (my tank also has a soil substrate), that should be fine.

My advice would be to use what you have found if there will be room later to add additional bulbs. How many bulbs are you planning right now?

The WPG rule is very vauge guidance. If you have a particularly tall tank, you will need more. If very short, you will need less. With all the new types of fluorescent lighting, wattage is meaning less and less. Like Drew said, look at the lumens. I don't know what exactly would suffice for your tank (I've never had one that big!). If you will be disassembling the fixture to put the caps in your hood, you will be able to rearrange them later if you need to add additional bulbs. I have done this successfully with homemade 55-gallon hoods. If you put the ballast outside the hood (such as on the back), it will keep things cooler, too.

I don't think you will need CO2 just because the tank is larger. Using it can make plants grow like gangbusters, yes, but in my world that just makes for more maintenance.

I'm jealous that you get to plant such a large tank!

Well i suspect it will take forever to plant it if i stick to trying to find local plants.. I do have a friend from another forum shipping me plants (for free) for my other tanks as well. I have a 90 that I had planted but my oscars destroyed them..know it has a few amazon swords that i added thursday.

I am actually in the planning stage of a "long-term" project to custom build a tank in my basement (it's going to be 650 gallons at current dimensions), and I've actually been doing some experimentation with lighting. I currently have 2 tanks set up: a 55gallon with the standard 2 t12 48" fluorescent tubes(2 40 watt plant & aquarium bulbs), and a 10 gallon with 2 14 watt cfl bulbs. Both have proportionate amounts of java moss and elodea in them. The plants are admittedly doing well in both tanks, but I've noticed that while the java moss is doing much better in the 55, the elodea is actually growing like crazy in the 10. I think, based on the ease of installation and projected replacement costs, I may end up using an array of 20 watt cfl's.... I have a while to go, so we'll have to wait and see on the end result. I do, however, have to note that the 10 gallon also is experiencing rapid algae growth on all of the rocks and glass, I invested in an otocinclus today to aid in algae control.

I am actually in the planning stage of a "long-term" project to custom build a tank in my basement (it's going to be 650 gallons at current dimensions), and I've actually been doing some experimentation with lighting. I currently have 2 tanks set up: a 55gallon with the standard 2 t12 48" fluorescent tubes(2 40 watt plant & aquarium bulbs), and a 10 gallon with 2 14 watt cfl bulbs. Both have proportionate amounts of java moss and elodea in them. The plants are admittedly doing well in both tanks, but I've noticed that while the java moss is doing much better in the 55, the elodea is actually growing like crazy in the 10. I think, based on the ease of installation and projected replacement costs, I may end up using an array of 20 watt cfl's.... I have a while to go, so we'll have to wait and see on the end result. I do, however, have to note that the 10 gallon also is experiencing rapid algae growth on all of the rocks and glass, I invested in an otocinclus today to aid in algae control.

Out of curiousity what are the dimensions of a 650G tank? I would imagine that would be hard to get enough light to reach the depth but I dont know.

I'm planning a flat-back hex tank, it's back is going to be 100" long, the front 76" long, and it's going to be 40" high and 40" wide in the center. I'm not really planning on it being super bright; it's going to be native-themed.

Edited by camber1981, 23 November 2008 - 11:30 PM.

Sounds like a cool tank, Camber. Just remember that water isn't really all that clear; that is, you'll lose a lot of light before it reaches the bottom of your 40" deep tank.

Brian- You might consider getting an old incandescent fixture to add to your tank; you can usually pick them up pretty cheap at yardsales and the like. This way you can use screw-in CFL's; because the ballast is built in to the bulb, different wattage bulbs can be used in the same fixture. Just don't exceed the wattage rating for the fixture.

Sounds like a cool tank, Camber. Just remember that water isn't really all that clear; that is, you'll lose a lot of light before it reaches the bottom of your 40" deep tank.

Brian- You might consider getting an old incandescent fixture to add to your tank; you can usually pick them up pretty cheap at yardsales and the like. This way you can use screw-in CFL's; because the ballast is built in to the bulb, different wattage bulbs can be used in the same fixture. Just don't exceed the wattage rating for the fixture.

I am using an old herp fixture with 1 flourascent and 4 screw in CFL unfortunately I cant use it as an example since the oscars destroy plants..even the amazon swords I have put in there keep getting moved..lol..I could use it on the native 90g and use a normal 48" flourascent on the oscar tank.

I have been reading this thread and decided to put my two cents in. The wattage per gallon suggestion dose not apply when talking about T5 High Output lighting as long as you are using a good bulb. The Hagen GLO bulbs have about the best bang for the buck. Just be sure the fixture can handle the wattage. I have two of the power glow and two of the life glow bulbs over my 90 gallon and I could not be more impressed. Plant growth and color is excelant not to mention how the fish look.

In an earlier post someone mentioned algea growth. It all depends on water chemestry..... keep the three main elements algea needs to grow under controll and you will be fine.....I have found doseing with the Seachem Flourish line keeps the plants happy and the algea under controll. The Excel product (organic carbon) tends to be an awsome treatment for algea if dosed a little heavy. That being said dont dose too heavy or you put your fish down.....

Hope this helps.......

Ok my lighting issue has been solved..I will be using a 260w PCF fixture..it also has moon lighting for night. Now my thing is I can not decide on substrate..I keep over thinking it, I think about soil and the "walstad method" but then I want a heavy bioload, I will be using a marineland C360 canister filter, I have read horror stories of fine substrates tearing up filters so I dont know what to use, maybe just go with a 3 to 4in layer of LOWES pea gravel, its what I use in my other tanks and it doesnt look bad and plants do ok in it. I thought about using potting soil with a layer of pea gravel on top but how do I clean this without causing the tank to cloud, I checked out farmertod's website and article on his variation of the walstad method but I'm not sure it is what I am looking for either. I want a natural looking substrate, that is safe for both equipment and fish if accidently stirred up, I guess any suggestions would be appreciated. If I went with a topsoil and sand mix what kind of sand, and what kind (brand) of topsoil or should I just go with my pea gravel from LOWES setup?

You can use topsoil covered with pea gravel. You just don't vacuum the gravel like you might in a non-soil tank. In actuality, for plants (both soil and non), you want the mulm to filter down through the gravel anyway. If it is accumulaing on top and you think it is unsightly, you can vacuum the surface so long as you don't go into the gravel.\

If you want to be super protective of the filter, I would have an extra powerhead on hand that you could stick a piece of foam over. That way, if you do stir up the soil doing something, you can turn off the filter and run the powerhead to clear things up.

Ok so just any old brand of topsoil as long as it is minus ferts? Would sand be a better idea than gravel and if so any kind of sand? if sand would look more natural than gravel I would probably like to go that route . I know I need like 3in of soil then another 1in of gravel or sand on top of that...right??

Yes, you have it right for topsoil. I would specifically use topsoil and not "potting soil" which often has no actual soil in it, only organic components. You can get the topsoil right out of the back yard if you want.

I wouldn't use sand over the topsoil in most cases. It is certain to accumulate a mulm layer on top, and invertebrates can move the soil on top of the sand. Plus, it can get into your filter if you are worried about it. The pea gravel will help any small material get back down to the bottom. Sand can look more natural, but I find it to be much more work. I would definitely not use it in a tank that large. I have it in 10-gallon tanks when I am planting things that are more fragile or have very fine root systems.

Ok Thanks for the advice...I began setting it up tonight. Heres a couple pics..I had to use a camera phone so the quality isnt the best. I used Home depot Topsoil no additives then a layer of LOWES pea gravel and I have some larger rocks I am going to add later.

Looking good! Just keep doing water changes to get out the fine particles.

thanks Newt, I am going to have to do that anyway because that driftwood hasnt been properly soaked so I will be changing water daily to remove tannins.

It's hard to tell from the photos - how deep is the gravel on top of the soil?