Purina Aquamax

I've been feeding my Bluegill Purina Aquamax. When they get hungry enough they eat it. Some of them seem to like it, others seem to not like it very much.

I've noticed that it isn't as "clean" as some of the other foods like worms or Shrimp. My tanks have taken on a bit of an odor that is not really bad but just a little like a stream or lake, I guess.

They will eat a pellet and then spit it out and eat it again etc. I vacuum the gravel well and have been doing 30% water changes twice a week.

I don't think I'm drastically overfeeding them but there are some pellets that land on the bottom. I think the Catfish and Crays like that.

Because I've noticed this very slight smell I'm wondering if things are okay in there. The parameters are always excellent as far as Nitrites and Ammonia go but I'm wondering if anything else could be happening in there that I should know about as far as bacteria or anything else goes. When I was feeding worms and crickets and changing the G.A.C. bag every couple months the water was pristine.

I want to take good care of these fish. Does anyone else here experience similar conditions with their native fish tanks?

I've been feeding my Bluegill Purina Aquamax. When they get hungry enough they eat it. Some of them seem to like it, others seem to not like it very much.

I've noticed that it isn't as "clean" as some of the other foods like worms or Shrimp. My tanks have taken on a bit of an odor that is not really bad but just a little like a stream or lake, I guess.

They will eat a pellet and then spit it out and eat it again etc. I vacuum the gravel well and have been doing 30% water changes twice a week.

I don't think I'm drastically overfeeding them but there are some pellets that land on the bottom. I think the Catfish and Crays like that.

Because I've noticed this very slight smell I'm wondering if things are okay in there. The parameters are always excellent as far as Nitrites and Ammonia go but I'm wondering if anything else could be happening in there that I should know about as far as bacteria or anything else goes. When I was feeding worms and crickets and changing the G.A.C. bag every couple months the water was pristine.

I want to take good care of these fish. Does anyone else here experience similar conditions with their native fish tanks?

What are your nitrates?

I do not like to use production feeds for fishes held in aquariums for several reasons. They are least cost formulations intended for use in ponds, cages, raceways and large scale water reuse system where observation through a glass is not a major concern. They tend to be made of different ingredients or are milled differently. Your high quality feeds intended for aquarium use are typically made of more digestible feedstuffs. The organism / tissue from which it is derived more important. Your present diet is likely to be based more on grain based feedstuffs that are not as finely ground. If you compare your Purina Aquamax to most feeds made for aquarium use, the former has more oil on the outside of the pellets which tends come of as soon as the pellet hits the water. The production pellets tend to dissentigrate faster when not eaten immediately liberated other nutrients into the water faster. The lower digestibility of the feedstuffs in the production feed will cause more nutrients in the fishes feces to be available for microbes that case the TO (tank odor)

I recommend either spending more on filtration or on the more costly feeds made for aquarium use. You could also do 30% water changes more often but in southern California that would not be ecologically sound.

Edited by centrarchid, 02 December 2008 - 06:33 PM.

Nitrates run about 20 ppm. Straight out of the tap they are about 5 ppm (groundwater)

centrarchid, what you said is similar to what the LFS owner said, although you are more eloquent and thorough in your explanation. Thank you.

She said simply that it is a "dirty" type of food and that is why there is more maintenance involved.

While I have this thread open I'd like to ask a few more questions if I may.

Krill cost $16 per pound at the LFS. Cooked, frozen baby Shrimp cost $5 per pound. Is there a difference in nutrition?

I've experimented with tiny amounts of various things including frozen thawed peas, bits of cooked carrots, tiny bits of raw bacon without fat (They loved it) and tiny bits of string cheese which they also seemed to like. I've considered trying tiny bits of cooked hamburger (beef), chicken etc. Again, I try just a few tiny bits of these things, just to see if they eat it.

Is there a problem feeding them these types of things?

I'm looking for something that is nutritious, that won't foul the water too much and does not cost $15-$20 per pound. Can you suggest anything along these lines?

Hi:

I can't be certain of the food manufacturer, but I made an error and fed my 6 Rainbow Trout fingerlings with "pond type" floating foods which I bought at the same time as the fingerlings.

They went nuts over the food for maybe 3 or 4 days, and were constantly jumping and hitting the pellets so hard they were almost knocking the hood off the tank.

However, I failed to notice the thin film of protein on the surface of the water from undigested food which got worse by the day. My wife woke me up at 5 AM and told me the fish were dead .... all except one had succumbed to lack of oxygen.

Since that mistake, I've made numerous tank hardware changes and haven't lost a native in several years now.

My 2 Bluegills do well on a mixture of foods .... cut up frozen shrimp, blood worms, krill, earth worms, feeder goldfish and rosy-red minnows, any fly, spider or moth that happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, and I also have them take flake food from time to time but now they don't seem too interested in flakes any more.

I get a real kick out of hand feeding them large moths that I've zapped with the electric tennis racquet .... they hit those things really, really hard and fast ... pretty neat.

Radioguy

I fed my green sunfish Hikari cichlid pellets and wardley and hikari algea wafers..they both cost about 10bucks a bag..and with the oscars eating the cichlid pellets as well I went thru a bag a month..I feed once daily sometimes every other day...IMO if your seeing a rise in nitrates by 15ppm in 2 to 3 days you are either overstocked or overfeeding and dont have adequate filtration for the bioload, figure if you waited aa week to do a partial WC you would be at 40 to 60, I am wondering how much you are feeding and how often?

Also if your looking for a healthy and cheap alternative you can try some of the cichlid pellets sold at walmart..but my oscars and green sunfish wouldnt eat them.. Honestly you get what you pay for in prepared foods the lower the cost the more useless filler is used..

Brian

Another person here, I believe was a breeder, said his Bluegill loved Purina Aquamax. Soak the pellets in water for a bit and they go for it.

Mine actually do go for it, the fish in the 100 gallon tank anyway. They are less finicky than the two in the 40. It's a competition thing, I believe.

Purina Aquamax is billed as an extremely nutritious food for carnivorous fish. I believe it is, but I would also expect Purina to make these claims also.

I've hesitated throwing flies and such in the tank because they seem so filthy, but I guess these fish are built to eat these kinds of things. I'm starting a compost pile in order to catch some earthworms to feed them.

I may be overfeeding them a bit. I'll feed them slower and try to introduce more of a variety of stuff. At the rate I'm feeding Aquamax, I have a three year supply.

And Radioguy, mine are the same way at feeding time. Lots of fun feeding them.

Edited by Sombunya, 03 December 2008 - 09:24 PM.

Another person here, I believe was a breeder, said his Bluegill loved Purina Aquamax. Soak the pellets in water for a bit and they go for it.

Mine actually do go for it, the fish in the 100 gallon tank anyway. They are less finicky than the two in the 40. It's a competition thing, I believe.

Purina Aquamax is billed as an extremely nutritious food for carnivorous fish. I believe it is, but I would also expect Purina to make these claims also.

I've hesitated throwing flies and such in the tank because they seem so filthy, but I guess these fish are built to eat these kinds of things. I'm starting a compost pile in order to catch some earthworms to feed them.

I may be overfeeding them a bit. I'll feed them slower and try to introduce more of a variety of stuff. At the rate I'm feeding Aquamax, I have a three year supply.

And Radioguy, mine are the same way at feeding time. Lots of fun feeding them.

Sombunya,

You have a 90 day supply at best. Feeding from that bag after that is bad for your fish. Freezing bag will increase feed shelf life to 6 months, possibly 12 months if ultracold.

Would Ken's Fish have a better quality food? www.kensfish.com

Sombunya,

You have a 90 day supply at best. Feeding from that bag after that is bad for your fish. Freezing bag will increase feed shelf life to 6 months, possibly 12 months if ultracold.

I have the pellets sealed in two clean, 5 gallon buckets with very tight fitting lids. I have a third sealed container I feed them from.
These containers were all clean and dry when packed. Do you think the shelf life is still that short?

I have the pellets sealed in two clean, 5 gallon buckets with very tight fitting lids. I have a third sealed container I feed them from.
These containers were all clean and dry when packed. Do you think the shelf life is still that short?

Sadly yes. The oxyge in the buckets will react with some of the nutrients, some more than others and degrade their value. Also some of the nutirnets react with each other causing the same result. The biggest part of that prolbem is that some nutrients degrade much faster than others. A diet with a nutrient profile, especially with vitamins can be very detrimental to health of any animal. First will be a reduction of appettite and growth, then nutrtion related disease and possibly death.

Feed quality tends to overlooked when it cost so much.

Sombunya,

You have a 90 day supply at best. Feeding from that bag after that is bad for your fish. Freezing bag will increase feed shelf life to 6 months, possibly 12 months if ultracold.

No, you can keep Aquamax up to a year as long as you keep it dry and cool. It even has an additive to keep the Vitamin C active. I was told this by the PHD that works for the company and is an expert on their feeds. They also make some aquarium feeds too.

I will see if I can find his email for you if you want. He's originally a Purdue grad and his name is Dr. Mark Griffin.

I'm the one that hydrates the Aquamax in the bluegill production pond (the larger fish). They are so spoiled by that they refuse to eat it dry and floating anymore unless I stop feeding them for several days. Remember to pinch the air out to get it to sink. Sinking feed gets a better feeding response than floating.

Edited by az9, 06 December 2008 - 02:49 PM.

Would Ken's Fish have a better quality food? www.kensfish.com

For a second there I thought you were referring to Ken Holyoke in Georgia!

BTW Aquamax makes pellet that is supplimented with Astaxathin for coloration. It's not much more than a regular bag. I get it at my local feed supply that gets in Purina Land of Lakes products. Less than $30.00 per 50 lb. bag. That would last you a long time for an aquarium.

Edited by az9, 06 December 2008 - 02:55 PM.

No, you can keep Aquamax up to a year as long as you keep it dry and cool. It even has an additive to keep the Vitamin C active. I was told this by the PHD that works for the company and is an expert on their feeds. They also make some aquarium feeds too.

I will see if I can find his email for you if you want. He's originally a Purdue grad and his name is Dr. Mark Griffin.

I'm the one that hydrates the Aquamax in the bluegill production pond (the larger fish). They are so spoiled by that they refuse to eat it dry and floating anymore unless I stop feeding them for several days. Remember to pinch the air out to get it to sink. Sinking feed gets a better feeding response than floating.

AZ9,

I am a nutritionist (Ph. D.) and went to school with Mark Griffin at Purdue. I am still in the business of raising bluegill and hybrid striped bass with nutrition being a focus. Ask a farmer that makes a living producing food fish as a sole source of income and you have different vested interest concerning feed shelf life.

This discussion is becoming very interesting.

These pellets have a distinct aroma to them. I bought them because I thought they would be very nutritious and less expensive than worms and shrimp. I guess I will keep feeding it until I can see a degradation in the quality or something. A bad smell maybe? I also intend to contact the company to see if I can get some answers on shelf life from them.

I also want to add that I appreciate the responses from everyone and respect your credentials too. You folks obviously know more than I. That's why I'm here asking questions.

Is it dangerous to experiment with small bits of various types of meats, vegetables, etc.? I won't be throwing greasy junk food in, but my Bluegill seem to like small bits of raw bacon. Also, small cooked Shrimp is much cheaper than Krill. Any problems there?

Edited by Sombunya, 06 December 2008 - 04:11 PM.

This discussion is becoming very interesting.

These pellets have a distinct aroma to them. I bought them because I thought they would be very nutritious and less expensive than worms and shrimp. I guess I will keep feeding it until I can see a degradation in the quality or something. A bad smell maybe? I also intend to contact the company to see if I can get some answers on shelf life from them.

I also want to add that I appreciate the responses from everyone and respect your credentials too. You folks obviously know more than I. That's why I'm here asking questions.

Is it dangerous to experiment with small bits of various types of meats, vegetables, etc.? I won't be throwing greasy junk food in, but my Bluegill seem to like small bits of raw bacon. Also, small cooked Shrimp is much cheaper than Krill. Any problems there?

Varying the diet with meats and vegetables can supply nutrients that another feed is short on just as it does with a varied human diet. Be careful with the use of meat products of terrestrial (especially warm-blooded) animals. The nutrient profiles are thought by some (no scientifically proven but ample anecdotal evidence) to cause health problems in fishes. I think the guys feeding beef heart to tropical ornamentals were the first to learn such feeds were decidely inferior to live aquatic organisms but sometimes that was all they could acquire. The trout hatcheries of 50 years and more back sometimes used beef, pork and poulrty offal (parts is parts) as a feed and frequently had health problems later attributed to vitamin availability. The same offal is now used as feed stuffs (a portion of a prepared diet) but great care is taken to add supplmental vitamins (stabilized forms are now the standard for many diets) and intermixing with other feedstuffs of aquatic or vegetable origin. Fatty acids profiles may also be a problem as those of terrestrial animals tend to be much much more saturated than those of aquatic animals or even most plants terrestrial animals might feed upon.

That's a great answer. Thank you.

Even though these Bluegill are little garbage disposals I'll try to stick to foods that fish would most likely find in the wild and/or specifically intended for them.

I've read where some people say their carnivorous fish eat all kinds of insects. I created a sort of compost heap in my yard to attract earthworms. I'll just try to vary their diet as much as possible while staying within certain parameters.

And thanks for the tip on feeding them meat from warm-blooded animals. Like humans, I guess just because it tastes good does not mean it's healthy...