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Establishing Scuds in a tank with Scud Eaters

Started by Guest_dsaavedra_* , Jan 09 2009 06:29 PM

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14 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_dsaavedra_*

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 06:29 PM

so i found out by experimentation today that my fish really like to eat scuds. especially my two mudminnows.

i was wondering if it would be possible to dump a whole bunch of scuds in at once, possibly with the lights all off, so that way a good number of them make it into the gravel. once they're they're in the gravel, would they survive and become established?

i just thought it would be really neat to have a scud colony living in my tank

also, if they were to make it into the gravel, would they get siphoned up by the gravel vacuum, or would they just go in the tube but fall back into the gravel?

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#2 Guest_gzeiger_*

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 01:43 AM

It should be possible in principle, and I've heard from some tropical fish keepers who have done it. It really depends on how many predators there are and how big the tank is. Most aquarium setups will have too high a density of fish to allow prey to survive.

It is also possible to establish them in a fish-free area such as a canister filter or sump.

They are not nearly heavy enough to "fall out" of your gravel vacuum, unfortunately. They may be strong enough swimmers to escape if you're just using a siphon to vacuum, but I don't think they have any instinct to swim against current so they'd pretty much get sucked up.

Dense mats of floating plants like anacharis, hornwort or water hyacinth would give them a better chance. They do breed easily in captivity, but I have only kept them in a 5-gallon bucket. I don't know how they interact with a filter.

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#3 Guest_dsaavedra_*

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 11:58 AM

darn, i had a feeling they wouldn't make it past the gravel vac.

i dumped a bunch in the tank last night and most if not all made it into the gravel.

i guess if i suck any up i could just put them back in the tank.

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#4 Guest_Newt_*

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 01:23 PM

I established scuds in my big tank before adding any fish; they are thriving down in the gravel and inside the driftwood. I don't vac my gravel, but I don't think you would damage the scud population much unless you are a really hardcore vacuumer. Just vacuum the surface layer and let the scuds themselves handle the detritus that penetrates deeper.

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#5 Guest_AndrewAcropora_*

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 03:23 PM

If you can provide a refuge for the amphipods behind your tank decor, you can establish a permanent colony away from your hungry fishes. In the past, I've used those green plastic strawberry containers, filled with the plastic confetti that often fills Easter baskets to provide a refuge for the pods. It really seems to work well. If you really want to go Gung Ho, CPR produces hang-on refugiums where you could get some macro algae and pods growing.

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#6 Guest_dsaavedra_*

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 03:43 PM

well i guess you could call me a hardcore vacuumer :twisted:

because i dig around in the gravel to get alllllllll the poo and uneaten food out.

when i vacuumed today, i only sucked up 3 scuds, and i put in close to 20, so either most of them got eaten over night or they escaped my hardcore vacuuming :mrgreen:

i threw the 3 scuds back in the tank.

thanks for the tips about setting up a refuge for the scuds, i might hive that a try.

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#7 Guest_benmor78_*

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 07:05 PM

well i guess you could call me a hardcore vacuumer because i dig around in the gravel to get alllllllll the poo and uneaten food out.

when i vacuumed today, i only sucked up 3 scuds, and i put in close to 20, so either most of them got eaten over night or they escaped my hardcore vacuuming

i threw the 3 scuds back in the tank.

thanks for the tips about setting up a refuge for the scuds, i might hive that a try.

This is an interesting idea. The display tank I set up recently is pretty heavily planted, and has no livestock as of yet. Maybe I can get a colony of scuds going as a supplemental food source? I wonder where I would get them?

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#8 Guest_drewish_*

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 07:29 PM

This is an interesting idea. The display tank I set up recently is pretty heavily planted, and has no livestock as of yet. Maybe I can get a colony of scuds going as a supplemental food source? I wonder where I would get them?

I'm going to try to find some locally for myself but if I fail, Paul Sach's Aquaculturestore sells them.

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#9 Guest_Newt_*

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 07:49 PM

I put some info about collecting scuds in this thread: http://forum.nanfa.o...wtopic=5220&hl=

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#10 Guest_benmor78_*

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 08:12 PM

I put some info about collecting scuds in this thread: http://forum.nanfa.o...wtopic=5220&hl=

Good info, thanks.

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#11 Guest_scott361_*

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 04:57 PM

Have you thought about the use of a refugium like setup?
That was one of the things that I incorporated into the design when I first built my system.
I sectioned off one of the back corners using some old undergravel filter pieces. It's where my intake particulate filters are located.
All the detrius is pushed toward that area by the larger pump at the other end of the tank and passes through the small perferations.
I always end up with many copepods making a home in there and a colony of tubificid worms have lived there for years.
It was sorta' a blending of a refugium and a Hamburg Mattenfilter (HMF), but I couldn't find decent foam mats at the time.
But, I really like how it's worked out regardless! :~)

This is just the left side of the tank.
There is a hidden powerhead on the right side that pushes the detrius and water to this area.
That little pump runs the waterfall system and takes care of the watering the plants.
The hidden filter area:

ce12.jpg 48.33KB 4 downloads
The front area:
(Yeah, it's a little overgrown right now!)

c621.jpg 47.52KB 3 downloads

You can't see anything from the viewing side even without the plants.
It's all hidden behind the rock structure.
Plus, it's been set up for years...
So, I don't really care how bad it looks! ;~)

Just a thought!
Scott

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#12 Guest_ashtonmj_*

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 05:22 PM

I'm going to try to find some locally for myself but if I fail, Paul Sach's Aquaculturestore sells them.

Finding them locally isn't a problem. I'll bring out a benthic D-net sometime. I'll probably grab a couple dozen in Feb actually when we do our volunteer benthic training. I usually just violently jab a dip net into an undercut bank with heavy filamentous root mats about a dozen times. I also found that macrophyte beds in larger rivers, especially the elodea is FULL of scuds.

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#13 Guest_dsaavedra_*

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 09:02 PM

i just dig my net around in the places where leaves have collected in the stream making sure to get sand/mud in the net too, and dump it on shore and pick thru it with tweezers and grab all the scuds and put them in a cup of water.

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#14 Guest_mikez_*

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Posted 12 January 2009 - 06:14 PM

I also found that macrophyte beds in larger rivers, especially the elodea is FULL of scuds.

Yes I've noticed the same thing.
One way to collect a lot of scuds is to uproot several large clumps of whichever plant, shake once or twice gently in the current to rinse some of the silt and detritus off, then throw the clumps in a bucket of water. Swirl the water in the bucket around violently then pour it off into another bucket. A good clump of weeds can stand several rinses before the scuds are all gone.

Another way is to throw the clumps of weed into a fish net and hang it over the bucket. The scuds will pass through the net and fall into the bucket as the weeds dry out.

BTW, both methods I described also yields an amazing crop of chironomid, mayfly,and stonefly nymphs, copepods, nematode worms and numerous other critters big and small.
At the moment I have a very spoiled half dozen young blackbanded sunfish which wholly subsist on a diet attained with the methods above with the recent addition of copepods dipnetted out of ice fishing holes. :rolleyes:

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#15 PBK

NANFA Guest

Ohio

Posted 21 January 2020 - 03:58 PM

FYI.....Be careful with wild caught scuds. Don’t put them in your fish tank until you can check them for an internal orange spot which is visible thru their shells which are acanthacephalins. Put them in a small clear container with some coarse gravel on the bottom The normal (unparasitized) scuds will hide in the gravel to escape the light. The sick ones stay out in the open exposing themselves to predation by fish. I read that the bluish colored ones might also be unsafe. Infected fish will have reddish worms sticking from their anus or will emit small whitish worms when excited.