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Shiners/Dace and Flake Food

Started by Guest_crb1701_* , Jan 15 2009 11:39 PM

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12 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_crb1701_*

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Posted 15 January 2009 - 11:39 PM

Hi All,

I have rainbow shiners and mountain redbelly dace. I assume these fish would be closer in nature to cold-water goldfish rather than warm-water tropical fish, so should I be feeding them flake formulations for goldfish rather than tropicals?

Any recommendations as to brandnames and special ingredients such as spirulina, garlic, etc?

Thanks,

Curt

#2 Guest_scott361_*

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Posted 16 January 2009 - 01:44 AM

I'm new to keeping these types of natives myself.
I've always had to feed live food such as daphnia, tubificid worms etc!
My Black-banded, Blue-spotted Sunfish and Darters wouldn't touch anything else.
My new guys include some of your selection and they absolutely love what I'm now using.
I will add more live foods, as soon as the season's population starts to grow.
I'm sure that the copepods will really make a difference.

But...
What I ended up with was Omega One Natural Protein Formula.
They go totally nuts at feeding times.
Not being an expert on dry foods, I thought that the ingredients sounded really pretty good.
It's made in Alaska and uses many products that sounded very good for 'em.
Whole salmon, Halibut, Black Cod Whole Herring, Whole Shrimp, Krill and Kelp!
Not to mention many other things.

If there's another better option, I'd like to know as well!
I'm not very concerned about price. My animals always get the best that I can buy.;~)
I do know that, although they're still young, they're really begining to color up nicely.
The last time I had anything like this, I used to make my own.
But this is far easier and even sounds better! ;~)

Scott

#3 Guest_crb1701_*

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Posted 16 January 2009 - 07:20 PM

Hey Scott - thanks for your input. Right now I'm alternating between Ocean Nutrition Formula One and OSI Ultra Spirulina Flakes. Like you, I liked the components of each on the label.

The OSI has red, yellow and green flakes mixed together in the same container - the MRBDs won't touch the red flakes. Other than that, both species seem to like their suppers.

Anyone else have a dry food story..?

Edited by crb1701, 16 January 2009 - 07:21 PM.

#4 Guest_fundulus_*

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Posted 16 January 2009 - 08:05 PM

For shiners like rainbows I'd go with high protein "meat" flakes. Goldfish are different from most North American cyprinids because they have a very long intestine for digesting more plant material. Rainbows and MRBD have a short intestine, as do other carnivores, so they have a poor ability to digest plant material (which takes time and a specific set of digestive enzymes). In my lab we've (Andrew Acropora, lately) been looking at the gut contents of scarlet and telescope shiners, and what we find most commonly are various arthropods like ants and springtails, with really mushy remnants of worms of some sort in some fish.

#5 Guest_mikez_*

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Posted 16 January 2009 - 10:18 PM

For shiners like rainbows I'd go with high protein "meat" flakes. Goldfish are different from most North American cyprinids because they have a very long intestine for digesting more plant material. Rainbows and MRBD have a short intestine, as do other carnivores, so they have a poor ability to digest plant material (which takes time and a specific set of digestive enzymes). In my lab we've (Andrew Acropora, lately) been looking at the gut contents of scarlet and telescope shiners, and what we find most commonly are various arthropods like ants and springtails, with really mushy remnants of worms of some sort in some fish.

My SRBD don't seem to mind their short intestines! They graze green algae and diatoms all day to the point of being chubby. Also, when I finally get around to scraping the front glass, the dace gulp down all the sheets of algae I scrape off the glass. This in a tank that get's frozen brine and blood worms every day. These fish are not starving - far from it. They seem to like to graze.
Blacknose dace do it as well but not as much as the red bellies.

Maybe they eat greens in captivity to make up for something missing from their diet of frozen meat and flakes.

If you guys get your hands on any wild SRBD, I'd be interested to know what was in their gut.

BTW, I vote for a quality flake that has spiralina as a main ingredient. I'm a firm believer in the nutritional value of spiralina - even for fish that are mostly meat eaters.

Edited by mikez, 16 January 2009 - 10:21 PM.

#6 Guest_fundulus_*

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Posted 16 January 2009 - 10:31 PM

Let me take back some of what I said; Phoxinus species like SRBD & MRBD are herbivores rather than insectivores like the scarlets and telescopes. Different fishes in different places eating different things. Rainbow shiners, though, are like the scarlets and telescopes. This is the problem with high biodiversity, there are too many ways to make a living.

#7 Guest_mikez_*

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Posted 16 January 2009 - 10:32 PM

Anyone else have a dry food story..?

Last season I raised up about 50 SRBD fry on mostly ground flake and ground freeze dried krill. I ground it with an electric coffee grinder to a fine powder then sifted through a piece of netting. They got live baby brine a couple times a week as well.
Eventually when they were big enough to take whole frozen adult brine shrimp and frozen bloodworms, the flake became a suppliment.

My results were that I had good survival even in the very early days after swim up. The fry one year later are fully colored adults but only half the size of their two or three year old parents.
I attribute most of the slow growth to my lax water changing practices. It's possible they would have grown better on more meaty foods.

#8 Guest_mikez_*

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Posted 16 January 2009 - 10:45 PM

Rainbow shiners, though, are like the scarlets and telescopes.

That matches my observations from the same tank as the SRBD mentioned above. The dace share their school with a half dozen rainbow shiners and a few common shiner. I never see the shiners graze or eat the algae released by my scraper.

#9 Guest_crb1701_*

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 01:18 PM

That matches my observations from the same tank as the SRBD mentioned above. The dace share their school with a half dozen rainbow shiners and a few common shiner. I never see the shiners graze or eat the algae released by my scraper.

I second that observation. I see my dace picking at the gravel and rocks, but I don't see the rainbow shiners doing this. Can I conclude the rainbows need less vegetable supplement than dace? (As stated above, I alternate between regular protein flakes and spirulina flakes for both.)

Also, what do you guys think about this color enhancement stuff? Godsend or garbage?

Edited by crb1701, 17 January 2009 - 01:21 PM.

#10 Guest_topminnow_*

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 04:26 PM

Also, what do you guys think about this color enhancement stuff? Godsend or garbage?

Garbage. You're better off feeding your fish high quality commerical and live foods if your intentions are to enhance color.

Edited by topminnow, 17 January 2009 - 04:27 PM.

#11 Guest_blaze88_*

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 02:30 PM

Whatever you end up doing, don't feed goldfish food, most of it is VERY low quality since anybody who seriously keeps goldfish feeds them koi food. I don't really specifically know about the diets of those species, but my general opinion is most fish food is crap.

For herbivores get some nori (sushi seaweed), lettuce, dandelion greens (uber healthy), spirulina etc. For the spirulina get the powder form and make your own flakes, just add water and let it dry in a flat tray.

For carnivores, frozen or freeze dried bloodworms, planktin, shrimp etc all work well.

For omnivores (most fish), just mix the two.

#12 Guest_dsaavedra_*

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Posted 23 January 2009 - 11:15 PM

my shiners go crazy over regular ole tetrafin goldfish flakes.

#13 Guest_jblaylock_*

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Posted 24 January 2009 - 09:09 PM

I have three different kinds of daces and multiple species of shiners. They all tend to love frozen bloodworms. However, I have noticed the daces picking at the rocks and the driftwood, seems like they are picking at the algae. I never see any of the shiners doing this.