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I need help

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#1 Guest_ScarySouthernMan_*

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Posted 17 February 2009 - 06:53 PM

Hello all,

I'm Jacob (don't let the forum handle throw ya, I'm a real nice guy...lol).

I was wondering if any of you know of any sources to find out a precise list of native fish for individual river drainages (more specifically the Upper North Anna) in Virginia.

I am asking on the part of myself and a friend who are very interested in attempting some research and potential propagation (native only...of course) for a small feeder creek/observation area.

Is such a resource readily available?

Also, are there fish species that are NOT native to PORTIONS of river drainages that may potentially alter an ecological balance if introduced too far upstream from their natural habitats?

My question specifically is for Goldmine Creek, a small tributary that feeds the North Anna River (actually Lake Anna but there are tons of Non-Natives in that crazy lake)... Is it possible that there are species that live in Goldmine Creek and NOT other feeder creeks in the same area (countywide lets say).

The creek is located in the county of Louisa, Virginia.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you all ahead of time.

- Scary

#2 Guest_ashtonmj_*

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Posted 17 February 2009 - 08:02 PM

NatureServe Fish Distribution is one of the most accessible comprehensive lists for native fish by (8-digit) watershed. It sounds like you are looking for information on a finer scale, like the subwatershed/11-digit HUC boundary. Anything that specific usually can be found in grey and scientific literature. Fishes of Virginia and a thorough web search or trip to a college library would provide the best information. The publication of the Virginia Academy of Sciences might be a good place for those types of drainage icthyofaunal lists.

It is highly likely that a small tributary isolated by a reservoir has a different fish assemblage than other tributaries in the drainage network. I think by the way you asked your question you've answered it yourself; if a fish did not evolve in a particular habitat of course it alter the local ecology if it was introduced, native or not.

Any research would necessitate a scientific permit through VADIGF. From what I gather it sounds like you're interested in propagating fish and translocating them to another stream where they currently do not exist. That action in itself would be subject to a scientific permit and not likely authorized especailly if they are being translocated to an area where they were not historically found, extant, native, etc.

#3 Guest_Kanus_*

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Posted 17 February 2009 - 09:39 PM

I think Matt pretty much summed up your questions. I just wanted to let you know that I'm from Fredericksburg and hop down there every so often to do sampling and collecting, so if you need someone to seine with or anything else, let me know since I'm right down the road.

#4 Guest_ScarySouthernMan_*

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Posted 18 February 2009 - 05:50 PM


2 posts and already I'm amazed... It doesn't take much to get me excited.

Ok. AshtonMJ,

Thanks so much for your input.

The goal of the research FOR THE TIME BEING, is simply to learn more about the locale. I'm hitting up the link you sent me right now. Thanks again.

To help elaborate the scenario, let me break it down a little more. No, I'm not going to intentionally introduce ANY non-native fish into a stream here or anywhere. I just don't agree with that practice, not to mention I think it's unlawful short of the permits you mentioned.

My goal was to merely supplement what is already there from another point downstream, which being below the convergence of another tributary and a very large lake, makes me very nervous. I guess another question is; how do I know (if it's even feasible) whether or not the species collected were ever intitially present in the feeder creek?

Again, I think I have a general understanding of the dangers of negligent propagation and don't plan to do that. I appreciate your concern.


I live in Thornburg... Wow, incredibly small world.

I've never been seining before other than when I was a child for crawdads. I grew up in Roanoke (down in SW VA) and did a great deal of exploration down there, however I've only been here in Thornburg for a year so I'm kinda new to the area. I would LOVE to pal around with anyone who knows more about this stuff than me (which isn't a tough thing to accomplish...lol).

Thanks so much guys,


#5 Guest_Drew_*

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Posted 18 February 2009 - 07:00 PM

Welcome Jacob! I'm one of two VA representatives for NANFA so if you have any questions pertaining to NANFA or fish in general, feel free to PM me.

What you brought up would be cool to do but very dangerous at the same time. It it also illegal according to VA regulations as you are only allowed to release fish back immediately to their collection spot. The same species can vary between tributaries in the same watershed. For example, there are several darters species that have been split into different sub/species in the same watershed but found in different order streams.

We get out quite a few times a year, Derek and Matt included, all over the place. We take trips to SE VA and the Roanoke area for example. We've done a few trips to Thornburg to collect quite a few species.

If you don't mind getting wet and muddy, we can show you some places and some cool fish. Just pay attention to the "Local Edition" section for trip notifications.

#6 Guest_ScarySouthernMan_*

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Posted 18 February 2009 - 09:13 PM


I can't thank you enough.

I've already found that there are some incredibly knowledgable folks around NANFA.

Concerning my research, I have no intentions of breaking the law. I obviously have some studying to do first before I begin putting any carts before any horses.

I really appreciate all of your help so far. I imagine that I'll be keeping an eye out for any trip alerts.

Thanks so much for the invitation.

- Scary

#7 Guest_Drew_*

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Posted 21 February 2009 - 01:34 PM

I forgot to mention that you can purchase "Freshwater Fishes of Virginia" @ http://www.afsbooks.org/55020c.html. It is a bit pricey but worth every penny if you are truly interested in the fishes of VA. It is also considered one of the best "Fishes of..." book around even though it was originally published 15 years ago.

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